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Old 04-07-2015, 01:32 PM   #1
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Default priming drywall-paint spec's

Since my last new thread was such a "golden" hit, I decided to start another one.

After spending a lazy Easter Sunday afternoon perusing my competitors' spec sheets online, I noticed something new in a couple of their drywall priming spec's. Well it may not be new but I just noticed it. Some of them say they are self priming or two coat systems on drywall, but they need a designated primer on the drywall mud! Huh? So I guess you are supposed to break out your old 4" wall brush (remember those) and just prime the tape joints? And this saves time? And there is no mention of this on their cans.

in the interest of a peaceful discussion I will refrain from naming the brands (three of them), but I find this quite interesting in light of some resent posts regarding the mud/tape joints showing or flashing through two coats of paint.

Why are they marketing products like this that really aren't any improvement to the standard best practices? Is the industry really so dumbed down that they can get away with this?
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Old 04-07-2015, 01:54 PM   #2
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Why? Because they want money. It's just like when you open account etc. Or anything you buy/sign for these days.

Devil is in the small print/detail. Woops
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Old 04-07-2015, 02:38 PM   #3
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Curious. Please do tell the brands or post a like to one of the TDS's your talking about. I've never seen anything like that.
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
Curious. Please do tell the brands or post a like to one of the TDS's your talking about. I've never seen anything like that.
I'll have to check my history from Sunday on my home computer. I'm still using desktops!
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:26 PM   #5
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Actually here's one that I remember. I know this is a cheap flat, but it is being sold as a construction self priming flat. But if you read the first paragraph about surface prep, it says to prime the joint compound and names a primer, then in the very next sentence it says it is self priming with two coats on bare drywall.

https://www.gliddenprofessional.com/...tds/1271v.aspx

is this a mistake or do they expect you to prime the mud?
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:27 PM   #6
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So they recommend drywall primer on bare drywall that has up to a level five finish. Hasn't that always been a best painting practice? This is just a continuation of our last discussion on this topic. And until respected organizations and associations, who provide standards for the painting industry, introduce primer finishes as a "best standard practice" over bare drywall, primer specific applications will continue to be a best practice.

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Old 04-07-2015, 03:34 PM   #7
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You had me panic checking my TDS's there for a second PACman. From the ones I checked, I think I'm okay :P
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:42 PM   #8
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here's another one from Glidden but this one is hard to understand because it says to prime on one line and then it says self priming on the next. Nothing about one being preferred over the other, just leaves it up to interpretation. Mistake? Or covering their ass?

https://www.gliddenprofessional.com/.../gp-1200n.aspx

This is the most common thing I have found on these data sheets. No recommendation or preferred application. Just kind of a try it and see how it works attitude. If it doesn't work right with two coats, then use a primer dumbass!

At least SW and P&L say that a primer is recommended but two coats SHOULD work in most cases. I believe the BM commercial products are the same. I would think this would make it hard to spec or quote a job unless you just bid it a prime and 1-2 coats, but that kind of defeats the purpose of even selling a self prime paint doesn't it? I'm of course not referring to the infamous "paint and primer" scam, but an instance where two coats is commonly used.
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
So they recommend drywall primer on bare drywall that has up to a level five finish. Hasn't that always been a best painting practice? This is just a continuation of our last discussion on this topic. And until respected organizations and associations, who provide standards for the painting industry, introduce primer finishes as a "best standard practice" over bare drywall, primer specific applications will continue to be a best practice.
I would prefer to call it a spinoff of that topic, as we really didn't touch on what the spec sheets were calling out. I just find it odd that they would do this. I am pretty sure that the drywall manufacturers are still spec'ing a high solids primer and two coats.
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodford View Post
You had me panic checking my TDS's there for a second PACman. From the ones I checked, I think I'm okay :P
Most of the BM sheets and cans tell you that a primer is preferred, and kind of leave it up to the user as to whether the finish will be acceptable or not. Pretty much the same as P&L. Cali is the same way, but they are a little more clear on why a primer should be used.
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:12 PM   #11
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On an interesting note, Aura does say you can use it (not a primer) to spot prime after filling surface imperfections. It doesn't give any special instructions for drywall, though: it just says it's self priming on most surfaces, and that if you use it as self priming on bare substrate 2 coats are required.

Regal's says you should spot prime if you're filling imperfections, but doesn't specify at all as to what that means. It doesn't even recommend a primer at all for new drywall: it just says to use two coats. They must be fairly confident in it?
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodford View Post
On an interesting note, Aura does say you can use it (not a primer) to spot prime after filling surface imperfections. It doesn't give any special instructions for drywall, though: it just says it's self priming on most surfaces, and that if you use it as self priming on bare substrate 2 coats are required.

Regal's says you should spot prime if you're filling imperfections, but doesn't specify at all as to what that means. It doesn't even recommend a primer at all for new drywall: it just says to use two coats. They must be fairly confident in it?
It doesn't surprise me in the least that BM would stand by their application recommendations and performance abilitities, regardless of standard practices. They are a big and respected company that sells quality paint. However, they still have an interest in competing with other manufacturers who sell primer/finish paints to contractors who demand products that increase productivity.

So until recognized painting standards include a primer/finish over bare drywall as an overall industry standard, rather than a specific manufacturer product claim, primer/finish applications over bare surfaces like joint cement, can only be viewed as great ways to speed up the painting process, but clearly circumvents recommended best painting practices.

But since the building inspector will never give the painter any grief over something that isn't structural, or part of a buildings systems and utilities, it really doesn't matter. Except to those who are pure in their painting prowess, like myself.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:02 PM   #13
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Don't disagree with you at all, mate. I'll do what I've always done, which is tell people to use it the way I know it works, and that's as a separate primer and paint system. If people want to be adventurous or are confident in the product, then that's fine and more power to 'em. But if asked, my recommendation will always be with the closest thing to "best practice."

Although I still don't think there's a very reliable set of "industry standards" extant. Something to improve upon as an industry, hopefully.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:12 PM   #14
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Sw is pretty clear on their primer spec's, even on their construction/maintenance grade paints. P&L tells whether a product can be used as self priming with two coats but recommends a primer as a preferred system. There is a lot of not so clear spec's being thrown out there!
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
It doesn't surprise me in the least that BM would stand by their application recommendations and performance abilitities, regardless of standard practices. They are a big and respected company that sells quality paint. However, they still have an interest in competing with other manufacturers who sell primer/finish paints to contractors who demand products that increase productivity.

So until recognized painting standards include a primer/finish over bare drywall as an overall industry standard, rather than a specific manufacturer product claim, primer/finish applications over bare surfaces like joint cement, can only be viewed as great ways to speed up the painting process, but clearly circumvents recommended best painting practices.

But since the building inspector will never give the painter any grief over something that isn't structural, or part of a buildings systems and utilities, it really doesn't matter. Except to those who are pure in their painting prowess, like myself.
Maybe where you are...around here they've made guys repaint because they skimped on drywall primer. No joke.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Maybe where you are...around here they've made guys repaint because they skimped on drywall primer. No joke.
interesting... BUT, once you have 2 coats of finish on drywall, what difference would primer over that make? now you would be 'priming finish paint', not drywall.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
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interesting... BUT, once you have 2 coats of finish on drywall, what difference would primer over that make? now you would be 'priming finish paint', not drywall.
Perm rating of the paint coat.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:23 AM   #18
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all primer does for drywall is diminish its absorbantness...

If you paint it without priming your first few coats may be spotty, but how is that supposed to create any other problem?

Yes, your brand new wall may have a thicker roll texture due to more coats, but the adhesion should be the same or better...

Should it not?
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Old 04-08-2015, 04:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JourneymanBrian View Post
all primer does for drywall is diminish its absorbantness...

If you paint it without priming your first few coats may be spotty, but how is that supposed to create any other problem?

Yes, your brand new wall may have a thicker roll texture due to more coats, but the adhesion should be the same or better...

Should it not?
really?
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Old 04-08-2015, 04:53 AM   #20
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youre right thats pretty bad... The problem is, I know all the technical terms in German, sometimes I just improvise an English word to get my point across

I assure you, in other matters I am still capable of speaking my native language
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