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RAL color standard system.

6K views 28 replies 6 participants last post by  Wildbill7145 
#1 · (Edited)
Someone turned me on to an android phone app called 'color grab,' which might come in handy for our trade. You white balance your phone, and then the camera analyses a color, gives the RGB values, and tells you the name of the color in the RAL color standards. This is the first I've heard of RAL. I guess its a European thing. Anyone know anything about this? Do paint stores have RAL color deck that they can give a quick references to one of their own?

Obviously, this wouldnt work for exact color matching, but I often need a color thats just 'close' to something, so If I could scan it, and do a cross reference, it would be cool.

For example, I scanned the blue color on the top of this page. It says Navy blue, which is pretty generic, so I did my desk. Its says "Bakers Chocolate."

So, Im wondering, whats the deal with these colors, and do our paint stores use these in any way? Can I scan a clients wall, and have some sort of cross reference to a close color at my paint store by either the RAL name, or even the RGB (hex) values?

I encourage you all to download this app, and see if we can figure out how to make it useful for us.

So all in all, it scans a color, shows the RAL name, the HEX code, and HSV (hue saturation, value) numbers for any given scanned color.
 
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#4 ·
So I just checked out the SW, BM, and the PPG apps, and for color matching, they're garbage, because you have to use your phones screen for a reference, and phones screens are not even close to accurate, (mine sure as hell isnt anyway...

If they used the color grab system and referenced it to their own colors, it would be good. Of course, I'd need to see some actual RAL color samples to figure out how accurate color grab is.
 
#5 ·
RAL is actually a German color standard similar to to the US "FS" (federal standard) color system. It is not very common generally speaking among normal paint retailers and is usually used as a more OEM or industrial standard. If the color deck is available there is nothing that would make the colors any more difficult to match than any other color deck. It is the availability of the deck which can be a problem. They can be ordered online but they are somewhat expensive considering they are rarely used.

Matching a color off of any electronic screen is not reliable. No matter WHAT the people who are trying to sell you on a color app or program will tell you. Take it from the people who match colors for a living and have done so for thirty + years. They are usually so far off as to be stupidly wrong!
 
#6 · (Edited)
RAL is actually a German color standard similar to to the US "FS" (federal standard) color system. It is not very common generally speaking among normal paint retailers and is usually used as a more OEM or industrial standard. If the color deck is available there is nothing that would make the colors any more difficult to match than any other color deck. It is the availability of the deck which can be a problem. They can be ordered online but they are somewhat expensive considering they are rarely used. Without a white balance, its ridiculous to even try.

Matching a color off of any electronic screen is not reliable. No matter WHAT the people who are trying to sell you on a color app or program will tell you. Take it from the people who match colors for a living and have done so for thirty + years. They are usually so far off as to be stupidly wrong!
Trust me, I get it. I wanted to test this one though cuz it has nothing to do with the screen, it analyzes the color from the camera lens. These other apps make you pick a color from your screen, which is obviously not even close. They have no white balance option either. With a white balance, it may be possible to get in the ballpark.

I just didnt know if paint stores used this RAL system in any way or not. Apparently not.

Is there a database of the HEX or HSV values for paints stores colors? Im really curious, and want to do a real test for giggles.
 
#12 · (Edited)
A piece of blank white paper would be sufficient for what Im thinking. We're talking human eyes, not NASA precision.

What I would like, is to do a basic white balance with the whitest thing on hand, focus on a color, and have it tell you what the closest color is, for whatever paint store. I was hoping that somehow, behind all the colors of all the paint stores, was this RAL standard that this particular app uses, and that one could find the closest color through some sort of database, but I guess thats not how it works.

But, forget about the RAL, Im asking you paint store folks if there is a specific HEX code, and/or HSV code attached to your colors as a standard or not. Im guessing not, since you havent brought it up, but if by chance there is, where is this information?

EDIT: I did find this: Its the scientific color data for BM swiss coffee. Is there a searchable database of the color codes? Also,
are you able to mix a color by using these codes?http://encycolorpedia.com/efede2
 
#14 · (Edited)
But, forget about the RAL, Im asking you paint store folks if there is a specific HEX code, and/or HSV code attached to your colors as a standard or not. Im guessing not, since you havent brought it up, but if by chance there is, where is this information?
NO No that is not how paint works at all. Hex, HSV, RGB are all for computer pixels. Measuring a hex value, rgb, hsv whatever will depend on whatever device measured it and a million other variables.

Paint does not give of its own hue after all. It absorbs and reflects whatever light source...
 
#13 ·
This is the first I've heard of RAL. I guess its a European thing. Anyone know anything about this? Do paint stores have RAL color deck that they can give a quick references to one of their own?
Never heard of RAL but just from looking it is similar to pantone colors, I have fandecks for pantone but not RAL. If you are looking to get a ball park for in the field there was a lengthy discussion in the 'i hate' thread about portable spectrometers:
https://www.xrite.com/categories/portable-spectrophotometers
But for just ball park carry what is wrong with carrying a few fan decks?
 
#19 · (Edited)
I sat down and tried this app with a 4x4 color chips using a folded white piece of paper as a white balance under incandescent and natural light. On my phone as far as ball park figures go I found that basically all you could use this for is telling if a color is blue or yellow. It does OK with Tone but its basically useless for Hue. I had slightly better (but still useless) results using my phone camera to white balance a photo and uploading it to the BM android app.
 
#21 ·
That just picks the closest color chip that is loaded into it. I had the same one with BM and True Value color chips loaded. It worked pretty well.
 
#26 ·
All I was trying to do was test an android app, not involve $2000 pieces of scientific machinery in it.

I simply asked three questions of you paint store guys:

A. do you use the RAL system as a standard behind your colors? The answer was no.

B. Do you have a database of hex codes for your colors? The answer was yes.

C. Can you mix a color by using hex codes? The answer was no.


I did not ask about any portable spectophometers, nor do I have any interest in buying one.

I did my tests. I couldnt even get the color grab to white balance on a piece of paper, and the angle the phone was held to the color samples changed the color readout drastically, so yeah, the test was a bust by far, and all those apps are worthless. Before you start with the 'I told you so's" remember I was simply trying something, that I have not seen anyone else try.

Now that that test is done, if you have any advice on how to more accurately choose a color from a fan deck to get a close color, Im all ears. Its been hit or miss for me.
 
#27 ·
A. do you use the RAL system as a standard behind your colors? The answer was no.
Never heard of RAL before this thread but Pantone (Xrite) is the industry standard mostly used in the print industry.

B. Do you have a database of hex codes for your colors? The answer was yes.
There is no official database of Hex, RGB, HSV etc. Any of the codes on these database are approximations made and are specific to the devices they used to measure.

C. Can you mix a color by using hex codes? The answer was no.
I cannot directly mix a color from a hex code, BM software does not allow that, maybe Xrite has some software to formulate a color prescription. If you came to me with a hex code I probably would use these database to lookup a couple of close color matches on a fandeck and go from there.

I did my tests. I couldnt even get the color grab to white balance on a piece of paper, and the angle the phone was held to the color samples changed the color readout drastically, so yeah, the test was a bust by far, and all those apps are worthless.
That was my conclusion as well.

Now that that test is done, if you have any advice on how to more accurately choose a color from a fan deck to get a close color, Im all ears. Its been hit or miss for me.
That really could be its own thread. I am sure there are people here on PT much better than I am at visually assessing color.
I usually start by trying to determine what the undertones are then pick to colors on either side of the spectrum and go from there. Helps to have a good consistent light source and view the chips at a 45 degree angle to minimize any differences due to sheen.
 
#29 ·
Exactly, posting on forums is opening the topic to discussion which may range in directions and opinions. Not saying this was happening in this thread, but there's another current one where someone was wanting a pulpit and got a little upset when people began discussing the issue.

Just doesn't work that way.
 
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