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Old 05-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #21
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WARNING!!! WARNING!!! There is no such thing as a self priming exterior paint, UNLESS, it's really an exterior oil stain!!!!! EVERYTHING ELSE NEEDS PRIMER!!!!! If you are going to paint, ALWAYS use a primer first. Coem on guys!!!
Buddy, you have posted 8 times so far, and I have read every one.....and I must admit, wasted my time. You are completely over the top, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will now bill you for every asinine post you make that I read
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:31 PM   #22
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Buddy, you have posted 8 times so far, and I have read every one.....and I must admit, wasted my time. You are completely over the top, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will now bill you for every asinine post you make that I read
LOL, he does seem to have an opinion huh! It is amazing how much you can find out about somebody by googling their user name!
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #23
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LOL, he does seem to have an opinion huh! It is amazing how much you can find out about somebody by googling their user name!
Totally.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:00 PM   #24
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It's amazing that such an obvious troll is still alive and kicking
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:17 PM   #25
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It's amazing that such an obvious troll is still alive and kicking
His delivery may not be in the best taste, but maybe we can help him with that!
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:36 PM   #26
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Some of these necro-threads are interesting.



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Old 05-29-2010, 08:50 PM   #27
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Was thinking the same thing.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:51 PM   #28
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Was thinking the same thing.
Thank God we have such colorful new members or it would be all this all the time.



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Old 05-29-2010, 09:30 PM   #29
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Buddy, you have posted 8 times so far, and I have read every one.....and I must admit, wasted my time. You are completely over the top, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will now bill you for every asinine post you make that I read
Sorry, but I'm not a troll and I know my paint. When it comes to exterior painting, in Big Bear, you ALWAYS use a primer first. When you get extreme temperature change, snow, and high uv, primer is recommended. Sure, maybe not for stucco houses in san bernardino, but where I live, priming is neccessary, at least with my fourteen year experience and my father's fourty years painting experience.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:46 AM   #30
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Hammerheart, define extreme weather changes.

I'm in Wisconsin and weather in the Midwest can be pretty extreme. Summers often hit mid to high 90s and winters as low as mid -20s. I have no fear of using a self priming paint or solid color stains sans primer. Stripped a deck a few weeks ago, and two coated it with a solid color deckscapes . I'll put it up against anything comparable that's been primed and painted.

Depending on what you're painting, sure a primer is needed occasionally. Reading the OP, I'd spot prime w the self priming paint and go on to two coat it and not think twice about it.

Come down off the mountain and find out how the industry has changed. You may learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

And since I'm not going to follow you around the boards, about your fondness for cabots... it officially sucks now days. Cedar lap siding home. New construction. Six years ago. Back sealed and one coated w/semi solid cabot oil before the siding went up. Second coated once construction was complete. It was recommended to the HOs to recoat every 3-5 years. Three years ago. The stain was holding up fairly well. HOs complying with the recomended maintenance, light pressure wash and recoated with semi solid cabot oil. (same product, same color, new batch) Less than six months later, product failure. Battle between HO, Cabots and my employer for liability. The changes to their product line were discovered and Cabots footed the bill. Although a Cabots pruduct had to be used. HO were advised against using Cabots but didn't listen. Two years ago they signed a waver releasing us if there was another product failure. Power washed the heck out of it, two coated it. Walked away and have heard nothing but horror stories about Cabots since.

Well... until now.

ETA: I've used a semi solid woodscapes on a similar home 5 years ago. It might need a recoat in another 2 years.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:50 AM   #31
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Hammerheart, define extreme weather changes.

I'm in Wisconsin and weather in the Midwest can be pretty extreme. Summers often hit mid to high 90s and winters as low as mid -20s. I have no fear of using a self priming paint or solid color stains sans primer. Stripped a deck a few weeks ago, and two coated it with a solid color deckscapes . I'll put it up against anything comparable that's been primed and painted.

Depending on what you're painting, sure a primer is needed occasionally. Reading the OP, I'd spot prime w the self priming paint and go on to two coat it and not think twice about it.

Come down off the mountain and find out how the industry has changed. You may learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

And since I'm not going to follow you around the boards, about your fondness for cabots... it officially sucks now days. Cedar lap siding home. New construction. Six years ago. Back sealed and one coated w/semi solid cabot oil before the siding went up. Second coated once construction was complete. It was recommended to the HOs to recoat every 3-5 years. Three years ago. The stain was holding up fairly well. HOs complying with the recomended maintenance, light pressure wash and recoated with semi solid cabot oil. (same product, same color, new batch) Less than six months later, product failure. Battle between HO, Cabots and my employer for liability. The changes to their product line were discovered and Cabots footed the bill. Although a Cabots pruduct had to be used. HO were advised against using Cabots but didn't listen. Two years ago they signed a waver releasing us if there was another product failure. Power washed the heck out of it, two coated it. Walked away and have heard nothing but horror stories about Cabots since.

Well... until now.

ETA: I've used a semi solid woodscapes on a similar home 5 years ago. It might need a recoat in another 2 years.
solid oil stains are self priming. but i call bs on a self priming ext. paint in high altitude. i see a job failure every month because of "self priming" paint. sorry, but if you're gonna paint, you should use a good quality primer first, if you want your job to last. and cabot's stains are still the very same stain i have been using since 1998. if there is a problem, 99.9% of the time, it's human error. if you recoated a stain, wet on dry, there's your problem. if there is EVEN a second coat NEEDED, it's always wet on wet.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:52 AM   #32
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ps you used a solid acylic deck STAIN, hence it's self priming. I am talking about using a real PAINT. PAINTS needs primers, stains do not.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:06 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerheart14 View Post
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! There is no such thing as a self priming exterior paint, UNLESS, it's really an exterior oil stain!!!!! EVERYTHING ELSE NEEDS PRIMER!!!!! If you are going to paint, ALWAYS use a primer first. Coem on guys!!!
The product I used was latex. Last time I checked latex wasn't an extreior oil.

Would you like me to make a list of aluminum and vinyl sided homes I've done with self priming latex paints and provide addresses so you can do an inspection?

I'm still wondering if Wisconsin climate changes are extreme enough to put products to "the test".

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and cabot's stains are still the very same stain i have been using since 1998. if there is a problem, 99.9% of the time,
I guess it was a 0.1% job since Cabots conceded it was product failure.

Also, no company wants it to be public knowledge that the formula to tried and true product has changed. Maybe word didn't hit the mountain top yet.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #34
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The product I used was latex. Last time I checked latex wasn't an extreior oil.

Would you like me to make a list of aluminum and vinyl sided homes I've done with self priming latex paints and provide addresses so you can do an inspection?

I'm still wondering if Wisconsin climate changes are extreme enough to put products to "the test".



I guess it was a 0.1% job since Cabots conceded it was product failure.

Also, no company wants it to be public knowledge that the formula to tried and true product has changed. Maybe word didn't hit the mountain top yet.
The likely problem with the Cabot stain was reformulation to comply with new VOC limits. A responsible company will test the reformulated material before selling it to the public, but you can't test for everything, and sometimes the tests aren't accurate. Once a failure occurs caused by unforeseen side effects of reformulation, it becomes a matter of company policy as to how they deal with it.

It might interest my fellow forum members to know that sometimes raw materials suppliers will change their specs without telling us manufacturers. This screws up our products, and we sometimes don't know until we find out from our customers. This happened to me several years ago with a very reliable defoamer company. I caught it before the product shipped. The company insisted there was no effective difference between the old and new product. They even had the same name. Eventually, when a very big and famous paint maker ruined 20,000 gallons with this additive and made them pay up, they admitted it was different.

The reason it was changed was to comply with European VOC laws. They wanted to sell the same product across the board, not bothering to make a special version for the US. Why do that? Same stuff, right?
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:20 PM   #35
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Can you guys get along???
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:52 PM   #36
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Duration is a great product! Also like the Hirshfields Platinum Ceramic ext.

Both are self priming.

Priming Bare areas of the wood is needed for a nice clean finish product.

Oil priming...my thoughts...
Oil based paints/primers create a barrier that moisture can not break through. Latex paints/primers are permeable, so to allow moisture to pass through and not cause peeling, blistering, etc.

any body have any thoughts on that?
That is correct, but latex permeability is relative to the level of gloss (or resin content), i.e. construction grade, bottom line flat is as permeable as a straining bag, where as a high gloss latex finish will bubble before it will let moisture escape.

The higher the resin content, the more flexible the finish, and the more ability it has to stretch before it cracks. So the ability to pass moisture reduces as the resin content increases.

A flat, or 'maybe' even a satin will let the moisture leach through to the surface, depending on how fast it's coming, but even if it does, rest assured the adhesion has been adversely affected.

And BTW, that old 'let's the wood breath' thing, to me was just a marketing ploy. I really don't want my wood to breath. If it can 'breath', it can suck it in as well as let it out. I want my wood suffocated by it's coating. And if it needs to exhale moisture, then it's too wet to paint in the first place.

And a challenge........can anyone tell me what the special 'ingredient' is that differentiates a 'self priming' latex from a regular latex?

I'm dying to find out.

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Old 05-30-2010, 10:31 PM   #37
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I was walking through a mad house at Home Depot today to pick up a couple of DeWalt combo kits (two drills, 18v litho ion impact drill and a reg 1/2 inch drills for $279 --best drill kit ever) and was walking past the paint desk and heard a HO ask for " That new paint with the primer mixed right in!! " The 16 year old paint desk pro said "That stuff is the best paint I've ever seen....right this way!" I laughed out loud, loud enough for both of them to stop and look at me. Awesome stuff!
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:43 PM   #38
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I walked through Home Depot today too. Man I bet was the same time, keeping in consideration of our 3hr time difference.
It was nuts, I think memorial weekend is HD best weekend for the year. All th DIY out doing the honeydo's.

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Old 05-30-2010, 11:44 PM   #39
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That is correct, but latex permeability is relative to the level of gloss (or resin content), i.e. construction grade, bottom line flat is as permeable as a straining bag, where as a high gloss latex finish will bubble before it will let moisture escape.

The higher the resin content, the more flexible the finish, and the more ability it has to stretch before it cracks. So the ability to pass moisture reduces as the resin content increases.

A flat, or 'maybe' even a satin will let the moisture leach through to the surface, depending on how fast it's coming, but even if it does, rest assured the adhesion has been adversely affected.

And BTW, that old 'let's the wood breath' thing, to me was just a marketing ploy. I really don't want my wood to breath. If it can 'breath', it can suck it in as well as let it out. I want my wood suffocated by it's coating. And if it needs to exhale moisture, then it's too wet to paint in the first place.

And a challenge........can anyone tell me what the special 'ingredient' is that differentiates a 'self priming' latex from a regular latex?

I'm dying to find out.
If a pre-painted surface is smooth, clean and patch free, then maybe it doesn't need primer. If you use regular latex over fresh wallboard, you're asking a topcoat to close out all the imperfections and irregular porosity that is best done with a primer designed for the purpose.

Since a primer doesn't have to have good scrub, burnish and water/solvent resistant, it can be formulated to everything a paint can't, like block stain, fill in sanding marks and scratches, etc. The good ones can be sanded smooth soon after drying to the touch, ready for topcoat.

If you add something to a topcoat to make it more primer-like, you will compromise its physical properties. A paint with good opacity can replace one function of a primer-good coverage for a color change. That doesn't mean it will do everything else a primer should do, like adhere to difficult substrates.

"Self-priming" is likely a sales gimmick that works on the uninformed consumer. It shouldn't fool the professional.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:26 AM   #40
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Pass the popcorn please
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