Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

Serious discussion about working with GC's

3K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  glennb 
#1 ·
I have spent over 20 years working with GC's. most of the time I enjoy it. From time to time I feel like I do today. It can get to the point were these guys can start to feel like they "own you". Like you have no choice but to do everything they get. I don't really like that part of it. I would like to know if any of you guys in similar situations have found a way to handle this to your satisfaction. How do you let them know you want to pass on certain work without them telling you to beat it?
I feel I am in a position where I have no choice and I don't like it. It's my business, do I have a choice?
 
#5 ·
Scott your responses always hit me right on.
I can work for the fussiest beast housewife or blow out a new house.
I just can't do it all and some stuff I don't want. I went to look at a fifty foot high beach house with eight feet on each side. I told them no. I got some pressure. I told them I am prepared to walk. I am not set up for that crap. I am a small specialized operation. How can they expect me to do it all?
 
#9 ·
Its a two edged sword. Yes, it is nice that they want to think of you as the solution to every paint issue they encounter. Sometimes, those problems fall outside of our service offerings.

GC's will play every game in the world with you. I have seen it all, and walked away from them all.

It starts with "we'll make it up to you on the next one", grows into "we have a ton of work in our pipeline" and spirals out from there.

There is a stability about that type of arrangement. You don't have to market much, you don't have to deal direct with client much, you don't have to run around doing estimates all the time.

But all this comes with a price. I learned this hardcore in '06 when we got to the tail end of a lucrative almost 3 yr project for a builder. Then, realize that it would be 18 months before they had another one framed and ready for finish. We had been completely out of circulation for nearly 3 years and lost a pretty solid residential customer base, and stopped answering the phone in the meantime. Thats the trap.

Balance in all things. We used to be 90% nc. Now, maybe 10. By choice.
 
#7 ·
You use the term "GC's" in plural. Maybe you are doing work for too many? Maybe cull the heard and eliminate as necessary. I don't like the idea of passing on work from a GC that has been using you exclusively & it has been profitable(if that's the case). That only opens up the door to price comparisons down the road when he finds someone else he can depend on as well. Now your're in a price war with the other guy for every project.

I would rather have just a couple of GC's that use me exclusively and work on growing the business in other areas. Many of the GC's I have known over the years have pretty much gotten away from taking the painting. They now just refer us to their customers and we do the same. That way we are working directly for the homeowner-which I prefer.
 
#8 ·
The term GC's was meant as in general or to all of us in relation to working with general contractors. I have been steady with the same one for four years. This year has been white hot. To the point where it's too much for my operation to keep up. I have been thinking of how nice a slow down would be just to catch a breath.
 
#11 ·
Gotcha Brian, I was never comfortable with a large portion of my work coming from one source. I think if you want to keep this contact you will need to grow to accommodate the demand -which is risky.
It's great to let them try someone else as Scott mentioned, maybe they will appreciate you more(which is very possible), but you do run the risk obviously of them finding someone else(probably more over price then quality). Only you can determine if this guy is worth it. Does he beat you up on price, does he pay on time? How dependent on him have you become to make a living?
 
#12 ·
Cliff thats why its bitter sweet. No beat up and paid within days. I am addicted and frustrated. I need to develop a way to talk to these guys so they can understand where I am coming from. Right now its a one way street and the pedal has been to the metal. Sure I am making money but I am not enjoying the ride at this point in time. Four years ago there was no work.
My father who painted for 45 years always said "its feast or famine". So true. The feast comes with a price and the famine does to. Like I said bitter sweet......
.
 
#13 ·
At our peak, we were working the most for 3 very good builders. Sometimes their schedules would stagger perfectly. Other times, they would clash horribly.

When you start hearing "you need more guys", when what you know is that you need a reasonable amount of time to do the work, thats the red flag.

I would not recommend building a business entirely around that market. It has to be supplemented by a healthy residential customer base. For cash flow, as well as variety. Painters can burn out on all nc all the time. It comes with a type of stress that is unique to painters.
 
#17 ·
It gets to a point where its not about the number anymore. Neps and I used to bat this around alot, and I think we both agreed.

My company has done more 6 figure residential nc paint projects than any company within 200 miles of us. What it comes down to is that you have no control over the schedule or the circumstances, so you end up working at a very low margin on a very high volume. On paper, and in real life, it only makes sense to figure out what service you can offer the most profitably and offer more of it. You have to have control of the project in order to safeguard your profitability. Otherwise, you end up looking for shortcuts and steps to skip. There are lots of guys trapped in nc and looking for ways to "innovate". Slippery slope.
 
#21 ·
i truely think i comes to down a mental approach .. i feel the same way sometimes and get all "proud" like "NO ONE OWNS ME" but at the end of the day im owned... im owned by my wife, im owned by the bank, im owned by my staff, im owned by the GC, simply because i rely on them.. its just how it is with regular customers.. you have to bend over and take it in the ass.. the only thing is how much are you willing to take?

iv thought about this issue and had many long nights thinking about it.. so you say ok, i wont work for one or two GC's ill work for 4 - 5 and then you market and get to work for them.. but then you have to have 8 - 10 guys to take on that many GC's.. so you are still owned because you must do the right thing and look after your staff , how do you do that ? by providing consistent work right ? but that means you will have to grab your ankles and take it again ! :censored:

Then you say F&#K this ill do repaints ! then you pay a crap load on marketing and then do residental work .. then you get crap from HO"s dicking you around for quotes, dicking you around on colour, dicking you around on price, dicking you around on start dates, dicking you around on " ohhh i thought you were painting that aswell"

you will always be OWNED ! the only difference is if you will be owned for alot or a little, if you will owned for a long time or a short time..

i believe the only way to negate it is to diversify and not allow the GC"s or homeowners or real estate agents or YOUR STAFF believe you need anyone.. you must play hard ball and make them think THEY NEED YOU ! dont always try to do people favours.. take advantage of their stupidity and line your own pockets because the painting gods know that you'll be raped by a GC, home owner or your staff for something soon enough.

our business goal is to have equal shares in all types of work.. and only work for those whom We want to work for.. it sounds simple but put that into action and see how hard it is.. easy for everyone to get on their high horse and say " oh i pick and chose whom i work for" .. thats easy to do for a 1 or 2 man band try that with 7 guys and see what happens and even then are you really working for someone whom you like working for ? such as do they pay on time, good rates, easy to deal with, project is ready and allows your team to work effectively, the projects arnt a pain in the arse with 100 year old flaking paint that has to be power sanded for 3 weeks. Im talking CREAM! everyone has a bit of cream but only the smart ones can have cream all the time.. how is this done ? i got no f&(king idea.. ill get there one day tho :thumbup:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top