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Old 05-09-2015, 10:48 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Proalliance coatings View Post
I'm talking about hide, not filling the can. Ask your BM rep or call tech and see what they say. I bet they agree that a little black or umber gives a better hide than a bunch of white. Although, the Gennex white is a completely different thing than what most paint stores use. It is a waste of money though.
I'm talking about hide as well. You get better hide with the BM when you fill the can (or add any amount of tint) is what I'm getting at. And yah, they'd definitely say that a little color will do even better than white.

My point being, adding any amount of any tint is going to give better hide (in BM, at the very least). I've talked to them about it, they don't ever want you using untinted base. It won't perform correctly because the paint is formulated to have specific amounts of tint in it- directly from their eggheads.
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Old 05-09-2015, 11:16 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Woodford View Post
I'm talking about hide as well. You get better hide with the BM when you fill the can (or add any amount of tint) is what I'm getting at. And yah, they'd definitely say that a little color will do even better than white.

My point being, adding any amount of any tint is going to give better hide (in BM, at the very least). I've talked to them about it, they don't ever want you using untinted base. It won't perform correctly because the paint is formulated to have specific amounts of tint in it- directly from their eggheads.
That's true that they say that. But it saves you a bunch of money to put something other than a bunch of white in it. But, many paint companies do not even make a package white anymore, the pastel base supposedly being ok for a straight white. I don't agree with it though, and I always shade my base for a straight white use.
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Old 05-09-2015, 11:27 AM   #183
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Since we have a few paint store dudes who tint paint every day, it would be great if one of you could suggest the definitive recipe for the highest hiding white. I know it could vary between paint stores, Gennnex vs Universal tints, etc., but based on your expert opinion and experience, I'd really like to know.

For the sake of clarity, exactly how much colorant would you add to 1 gal of white for the best covering white? I know umber will change the color slightly, but how much could you safely add to a 1 gal to increase hide before it's noticeable that it's no longer white-white?
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:07 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Proalliance coatings View Post
That's true that they say that. But it saves you a bunch of money to put something other than a bunch of white in it. But, many paint companies do not even make a package white anymore, the pastel base supposedly being ok for a straight white. I don't agree with it though, and I always shade my base for a straight white use.
All of my tints cost the same amount per quart "Perk" of being a Ben Moore dealer.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:12 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Woodford View Post
All of my tints cost the same amount per quart "Perk" of being a Ben Moore dealer.
Just roughly, very ballpark figure's fine, if you're allowed to say; what's a quart of that stuff worth anyways? Just out of curiousity sake. I've seen the stuff for 12 years and have no idea whatsoever.

As in, I don't know if it's worth $10/q or $150.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:57 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by stelzerpaintinginc. View Post
Since we have a few paint store dudes who tint paint every day, it would be great if one of you could suggest the definitive recipe for the highest hiding white. I know it could vary between paint stores, Gennnex vs Universal tints, etc., but based on your expert opinion and experience, I'd really like to know.

For the sake of clarity, exactly how much colorant would you add to 1 gal of white for the best covering white? I know umber will change the color slightly, but how much could you safely add to a 1 gal to increase hide before it's noticeable that it's no longer white-white?
It's... a really hard thing to say, for me. How white-white do you want your white? Depends a lot on your eye for color (or your customer's). Decorators White from BM (PM-3) looks dirty to me, but it's an ever popular white and has close to an ounce of colorant in it. It's probably the best compromise between hide and whiteness I can think of right off the top of my head- it's got a good amount of S1 (black) as well as a little of the R3 and Y3 (oxide red/yellow). It's all about where you draw the line between white and off white.

Personally speaking, as a white-white OC-117 does a pretty good job for me. It's just got about 4 shots of gray and 1.5 of Y3 as I recall. So much is subjective, though.
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Old 05-09-2015, 01:24 PM   #187
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OC-117 simply white is our go to white for ceilings and trim. It used to be white dove but we are pushing this one now. It's also nice to have one main white so that if there's q bunch leftover we bring it back to the shop knowing we will use it again. We try not to bring any other paints back to the shop. Although ready mix black from breakthrough or others is also one we bring back.
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Old 05-09-2015, 01:32 PM   #188
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I see a lot of White Dove locally, and it's generally my first suggestion for trim. I think as a painter finding a set color for ceilings and trim to be your standard is a great way of saving money and time. White Dove is very noticeably darker than Simply White, but it seems a lot of people don't mind it. I rarely have any issues with hide in Regal or Aura, but I might do a bit of testing to see if I can tell the difference between the hide of the two just for my own curiosity.
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Old 05-09-2015, 08:48 PM   #189
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I did one test on a ceiling and the simple white covered better than the white dove. My own house has white dove trim leftover from a while ago, and we just did the ceiling over again in the remodel, using simply white. They both look white if y don't have a bright white card stock next to it.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:58 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by PACman View Post
In the meantime, I have done my hillbilly lab testing on the Ovation, Promar 200, and Superpaint, and there is no way in hell that Ovation is anything less a product than Superpaint. It may be something different, maybe a new formulation, but the performance is far above Promar 200 in my lab shack. For one thing it is about 5 time whiter then 200, and it lays out and hides much better.
I've used Ovation very little, and Showcase none, so this is not my personal experience talking, but since these are fairly new products, it's conceivable that they are actually different paints, but formulated to have the same "early" attributes as SuperPaint and Duration (i.e. thickness, lay out, hide, but not necessarily durability). Long term attributes like scrubbability, UV resistance, etc are obviously harder to test for new products.

I have no idea who this person is, but he claims this:
http://www.greenwoodindianapolispain...on-superpaint/

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Old 01-03-2016, 01:57 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
I've used Ovation very little, and Showcase none, so this is not my personal experience talking, but since these are fairly new products, it's conceivable that they are actually different paints, but formulated to have the same "early" attributes as SuperPaint and Duration (i.e. thickness, lay out, hide, but not necessarily durability). Long term attributes like scrubbability, UV resistance, etc are obviously harder to test for new products.

I have no idea who this person is, but he claims this:
http://www.greenwoodindianapolispain...on-superpaint/
Good read.
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Old 01-03-2016, 05:26 PM   #192
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i use showcase in my rental properties. I like it alot, covers well.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:39 PM   #193
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I recently did a big job and used both Showcase and Ovation. I preferred the Ovation as far as coverage, but the Showcase certainly laid prettier.
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:03 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
I've used Ovation very little, and Showcase none, so this is not my personal experience talking, but since these are fairly new products, it's conceivable that they are actually different paints, but formulated to have the same "early" attributes as SuperPaint and Duration (i.e. thickness, lay out, hide, but not necessarily durability). Long term attributes like scrubbability, UV resistance, etc are obviously harder to test for new products.

I have no idea who this person is, but he claims this:
http://www.greenwoodindianapolispain...on-superpaint/
Unfortunately I can't do detailed chemical analysis in my hillbilly lab (yet!), but this certainly make sense to me. There would definitely be an attempt to cheapen the product and maximize profit, so this would be no real surprise. It definitely means that those product lines are not a very good value to the end consumer, as there is a lot of money to be handed out for the prices it is sold at. It may work quite well on initial application, but almost certainly there has to be some compromise on quality and the easiest thing to do is lower the durability of the product, something most consumers would never be aware of.

Rental properties would be a great use for these products, as long term durability is not as critical as the application properties.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:08 PM   #195
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OC-117 simply white is our go to white for ceilings and trim.
And now it's Ben Moore's color of the year. Nice pick
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:17 PM   #196
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And now it's Ben Moore's color of the year. Nice pick
I heard about that a while ago. My first reaction was shock. Seriously? They picked a white for colour of the year?

I think over the last few years, I've painted more greys than in the ten years previous to that. Silver Fox being the most popular.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:37 PM   #197
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I heard about that a while ago. My first reaction was shock. Seriously? They picked a white for colour of the year?

I think over the last few years, I've painted more greys than in the ten years previous to that. Silver Fox being the most popular.
I wasn't particularly happy about it myself to be honest. Their justification for it is "well 'x' % of all BM paint sales are white colors!" To which my response was "of course you ninnies, almost all trim and ceilings are painted white." Theoretically it does represent sales well, but realistically it has very little to do with trends or yearly changes. I don't buy that white's coming back for walls as a trend. It still happens sometimes, but it's extremely unpopular in my region and in most regions that I've talked to people in (for residences, that is). Over all very disappointed in their entire pallet compared to previous years. Lots of the other colors were either boring or gaudy. Only about 3 that I actually like.
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