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Old 04-06-2015, 08:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Proalliance coatings View Post
I bought a can this morning, and after brushing some and rolling some I believe it can give the Behr Pure Premium Ultra a good run for the money. I think it is a big improvement over the Lowe's Valspar Ultra. For what that is worth to any of you of course!

This is the Ovation label not the Showcase label.
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Old 04-06-2015, 09:56 PM   #42
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This thread is gold.

Especially if your the manager and see your employees post stuff all day long, every day.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:45 AM   #43
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Are you implying that this info has no worth? lol!
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:50 AM   #44
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I saw something this morning that I found quite ironic, and i kind of relate it to what is going on in the paint business lately. A guy at Walmart had an old pos Chevy s-10 with a nice big shiny Dodge Ram hood ornament on it, like the ones they put on pick-up trucks. Like one is better than the other or something. Dream big my friend, dream big.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:44 AM   #45
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And like I said earlier as well. Doesn't hurt to ask if they can match some pricing. If not oh well, they know what will happen. And in most cases they can or will come close. Least that is my experience.
Yes, it's every painter's dream to work with a paint company where you have to fight with them, as a professional painter, to get the same prices on the same products as DIY'ers.

I'm so baffled why people still shop with SW
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:06 AM   #46
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Yes, it's every painter's dream to work with a paint company where you have to fight with them, as a professional painter, to get the same prices on the same products as DIY'ers.

I'm so baffled why people still shop with SW
yeah no Sh**. And then they complain that there is no were else to buy paint every time they announce a price increase.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:11 AM   #47
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Someone told me this morning that it is Promar 200 and 400 relabeled and I said bullsh**! There is no way that Promar 200 and 400 have ever covered as well as this stuff does. This is obviously a much higher grade then that! Gotta be Superpaint and Duration just with the 40% off sale an everyday thing at Lowe's. I don't understand this at all. Exactly what killed off Frazee after they went into Home Depot out west.

If anything the property management grade is 200 ($13.98 for flat) and the economy grade is 400($9.97 for flat).

tell me if I am wrong, but the lowest prices I have seen around here are right at $26-27 for superpaint and $37-38 for Durations. That puts Lowe's $27 for ovation and $38 for showcase right at the lowest contractor pricing in my area. Is that similar to what painters are paying elsewhere? If it is i'd be damn pissed!
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:52 PM   #48
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Someone told me this morning that it is Promar 200 and 400 relabeled and I said bullsh**! There is no way that Promar 200 and 400 have ever covered as well as this stuff does. This is obviously a much higher grade then that! Gotta be Superpaint and Duration just with the 40% off sale an everyday thing at Lowe's. I don't understand this at all. Exactly what killed off Frazee after they went into Home Depot out west.

Not sure comparing Frazee and a $10 billion paint empire, the largest in the domestic market, is quite an apt comparison. If anything, I think SW saw the writing on the wall and realized that you can't charge what they used to for mid-grade paint. They have been on defense for a while now and I think they wanted to fire a scud. They're rolling out very competitive pricing lately and focusing more on volume than margins, and they're getting that market share. I'd be more worried for BM than SW at this point. And you're right, Ovation and Showcase are not 200 and 400, not even close.

If anything the property management grade is 200 ($13.98 for flat) and the economy grade is 400($9.97 for flat).

These lines are almost certainly Property Solution and Painter's Edge relabels. Those shelf prices are out of the question for 200 and 400.

tell me if I am wrong, but the lowest prices I have seen around here are right at $26-27 for superpaint and $37-38 for Durations. That puts Lowe's $27 for ovation and $38 for showcase right at the lowest contractor pricing in my area. Is that similar to what painters are paying elsewhere? If it is i'd be damn pissed!
Ovation and Showcase are SW's way of easing into what is more the going rate for paints of those quality levels without just dropping shelf prices. I would say the prices you named are very good prices for contractors, but not smoking. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is about the price. At a time when BM just had a price increase, people are gonna complain that SW wants to relabel Super Paint and drop the price to a bargain at $27? SW makes some debatable choices, but I'm not really sure lowering prices to an everyday low price for all is a terrible one. Don't people keep clamoring for a 'one-price-for-all' to simplify pricing? I dunno, you can't please everyone.

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Old 04-07-2015, 07:17 PM   #49
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[QUOTE=ShermanMoore;737801]Ovation and Showcase are SW's way of easing into what is more the going rate for paints of those quality levels without just dropping shelf prices. I would say the prices you named are very good prices for contractors, but not smoking. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is about the price. At a time when BM just had a price increase, people are gonna complain that SW wants to relabel Super Paint and drop the price to a bargain at $27? SW makes some debatable choices, but I'm not really sure lowering prices to an everyday low price for all is a terrible one. Don't people keep clamoring for a 'one-price-for-all' to simplify pricing? I dunno, you can't please everyone.[/QUOTE]

Hard to please ANYONE around here
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:17 PM   #50
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Hard to please ANYONE around here
True dat. I don't agree with everything Uncle Sherwin decides, but this recent move looks to me like SW admitting to what everyone here says it should, namely, that the pricing is out of whack and needs to be simplified (and preferably lower). You don't have to go out and buy the new lines, but I think it'd be disingenuous to say they're still overpriced -- unless you think SW is overpriced at any price, which I recognize is the case for many on this forum. In that case, you're probably not the kind of person who really cares what your paint costs as long as it's under $100.

FWIW, I hear Ben Moore is hinting to it's dealers that it has a big reveal planned later this year. My local guy speculates that it's their first $100+ gallon of paint. Cheers.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:39 PM   #51
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$100 a gal isn't bad if it's good stuff. I've paid over 100, $110 actually for some Modern Masters paint, metallic. So....it all depends.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:07 PM   #52
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$100 a gal isn't bad if it's good stuff. I've paid over 100, $110 actually for some Modern Masters paint, metallic. So....it all depends.

Specialty stuff for niche jobs, sure. But I could never imagine shelling out $100 for matte wall paint. If the customer wants and pays for it, I'd do as I'm told, but I'd recommend spending half that and giving the other half to charity if they want to feel special.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:26 PM   #53
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Specialty stuff for niche jobs, sure. But I could never imagine shelling out $100 for matte wall paint. If the customer wants and pays for it, I'd do as I'm told, but I'd recommend spending half that and giving the other half to charity if they want to feel special.
FPOE matte wall paint $166/gal
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:53 PM   #54
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FPOE matte wall paint $166/gal


Some people have way too much disposable income.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:07 AM   #55
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Some people have way too much disposable income.
I'd be afraid to even try it for fear I'd really like it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:17 AM   #56
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Ovation and Showcase are SW's way of easing into what is more the going rate for paints of those quality levels without just dropping shelf prices. I would say the prices you named are very good prices for contractors, but not smoking. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is about the price. At a time when BM just had a price increase, people are gonna complain that SW wants to relabel Super Paint and drop the price to a bargain at $27? SW makes some debatable choices, but I'm not really sure lowering prices to an everyday low price for all is a terrible one. Don't people keep clamoring for a 'one-price-for-all' to simplify pricing? I dunno, you can't please everyone.
Keep in mind, that I am referring to Frazee as it was in the 80's and 90's. They were obviously not a national company, but I have never seen a paint company anywhere that was as dominant as frazee was in Socal them. They had about 70-75% percent of the market according to SW at the time.

I was out there when Home depot threatened to kick out Dutchboy as their secondary line and although I wasn't involved in the discussion, being in the same office as the district office when the SW big wigs had a meeting on the subject, (come to think of it, they seemed to schedule a lot of meetings in San Diego on sunny Friday afternoons. Maybe that's why their spouses were waiting in their rental cars for them), and I was privy to some fairly loud discussions about how HD was being a pita because they wanted the SW label in their stores and not Dutchboy. The loudest and most vehement big wig against the idea of SW in HS is still one of the major decision makers at SW.

When Frazee did it, we had just about every painter in San Diego call us to set up an account. Stories of HD charging less than painters that had used the same product for 20-30 years were quite common. I wouldn't think so much about it if SW had put a different label on the Lowe's paint, but having the same paint in both places at different prices is the same thing they were, no make that HE, was so opposed too in the 90's with the HD thing. And it killed Frazee in socal in the long run. They went into receivership in the mid to late 90's, and if it weren't for a string of parent companies they wouldn't be here today as a SW brand.

Granted, SW has some big bucks to help them survive any flap over this, so that probably will be the difference.

I have a maintenance painter here in town buying 400 flat for $9.00 a gallon, so it could be done. I seriously doubt if that product line is leaving the factory at more than $4-6 dollars a gallon believe it or not. And the store managers at sw don't know because it gets marked up at least 4 times before it gets costed to them. Eliminate 3 of those mark-ups and the cost to Lowe's is pretty low.

I hope that what they are selling IS the Property Solutions and Painter's edge because that pricing would be much more fair to the professional painters. Actually no I don't hope that! I hope it is Duration and Cashmere so they piss you guys off and maybe you will try Pratt & Lambert for a change!
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:24 AM   #57
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True dat. I don't agree with everything Uncle Sherwin decides, but this recent move looks to me like SW admitting to what everyone here says it should, namely, that the pricing is out of whack and needs to be simplified (and preferably lower). You don't have to go out and buy the new lines, but I think it'd be disingenuous to say they're still overpriced -- unless you think SW is overpriced at any price, which I recognize is the case for many on this forum. In that case, you're probably not the kind of person who really cares what your paint costs as long as it's under $100.

FWIW, I hear Ben Moore is hinting to it's dealers that it has a big reveal planned later this year. My local guy speculates that it's their first $100+ gallon of paint. Cheers.
Also remember that SW has been on a buying spree the last few years, so their cash reserves are getting a little low. This seems to me to be another edition of the endless switching from a contractor oriented store to a retail oriented store and back and forth and back and forth forever that they have been doing for fifty years.

I believe Benny Moore is going to put products into Home depot and give the highly trained and motivated HD employees fancy schmancy shirts to wear, thus proving to the world that they are the greatest of paint experts.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:37 AM   #58
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I believe Benny Moore is going to put products into Home depot and give the highly trained and motivated HD employees fancy schmancy shirts to wear, thus proving to the world that they are the greatest of paint experts.
I wouldn't worry too much about that lol. If BM even considered selling to the big boxes they would go under instantly.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:51 PM   #59
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I wouldn't worry too much about that lol. If BM even considered selling to the big boxes they would go under instantly.
yeah that is a lot of paint experts to give shirts too!
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:08 PM   #60
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I wouldn't worry too much about that lol. If BM even considered selling to the big boxes they would go under instantly.

I've seen BM in places such as Ace and other hardware stores. Thats still a pretty big distribution point. So I don't think they would go under.
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