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Old 04-30-2018, 10:58 PM   #1
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Default Square footage

Guys,

Went on my own about eight months ago. I bid most of my work by the SQFT.
The guy who taught me said when measuring the SFT of walls, do not omit the doors and windows (unless there are a lot)in a room because it takes extra time to cut it in. I could just measure it and see the amount and adjust the price if I see the need.

Still learning to get my bids down. I don't want to over charge or shoot myself in the foot.
Just wondering......anybody have any input on this? Or am I just nit picking and making too much out of it?

TIA
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:21 PM   #2
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Doors and windows count as wall space even if there are a lot of them. What would a bunch of windows add up to, a couple of gallons of paint is all. More to think about with prep,mask paint. It will work out for you the more you do.Square foot pricing is a crap shoot and tedious to figure out exact s.f. for the project. It is fine to know s.f. for materials but you should figure out how long it will take you to do each task and come up with a daily rate then add materials and profit and overhead.
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:52 PM   #3
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I was also taught to bid by square foot, but if you dont know your costs and margins then your just giving out random numbers. It will take you some time to analyze your costs over a few jobs. I started out time and material when I went out by myself then took those numbers and was able to get to a square foot rating.

2000 sq ft exterior -

25 Gallons x $30gal = $750 / 2000 sq ft = $.38 sq ft

40 hours x $75hr = $3000 / 2000 sq ft = $1.50 sq ft

Materials (Spray tips, masking, tape, rollers, etc) - $200 / 2000 sq ft = $.10

Overhead - $500 (I always just add $500 for my overhead) = $.25 sq ft

Total = $2.23/sqft, I round it to $2.25.



This would be a super basic plan, every job is different so you should run your numbers ahead of time to make sure your profiting.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:53 AM   #4
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I use wall square footage for all my estimating. I don't subtract doors or windows, above replies are right, you either are masking them or cutting them. I have my pricing down pat, so I can include base or ceilings, with an add to my wall square foot number. Then number of doors or items as extras. I started with this book:
https://www.contractorresource.com/2...SABEgJ1oPD_BwE

I think it was the THE most influential read for starting a painting company. Yes, you will need to start learning your costs as you go, but this method is no miss. I have yet to bid a job, do the job, and not make the money I was expecting to in the end.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:45 AM   #5
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Plus, its just a lot simpler not to be subtracting stuff.
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSistersPainting View Post
I was also taught to bid by square foot, but if you dont know your costs and margins then your just giving out random numbers. It will take you some time to analyze your costs over a few jobs. I started out time and material when I went out by myself then took those numbers and was able to get to a square foot rating.

2000 sq ft exterior -

25 Gallons x $30gal = $750 / 2000 sq ft = $.38 sq ft

40 hours x $75hr = $3000 / 2000 sq ft = $1.50 sq ft

Materials (Spray tips, masking, tape, rollers, etc) - $200 / 2000 sq ft = $.10

Overhead - $500 (I always just add $500 for my overhead) = $.25 sq ft

Total = $2.23/sqft, I round it to $2.25.



This would be a super basic plan, every job is different so you should run your numbers ahead of time to make sure your profiting.
The only problem I see with using this type of formulation based on the floor is what about wall height changes. If this was typical for an 8' ceiling house, what about a 9' or 10'? Material and labor will increase by a big percent.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCalifornia View Post
The only problem I see with using this type of formulation based on the floor is what about wall height changes. If this was typical for an 8' ceiling house, what about a 9' or 10'? Material and labor will increase by a big percent.
I assume that it is 2000 sq feet of the exterior body. That could be siding or stucco.

I agree that this formula doesn't always work out.

If it was a ranch style house with 10' high walls and 2000 sq feet of stucco, that's a lot easier to paint than doing a 3 story townhouse that is 30' high.

I usually add 25% to a wall price if it is over 9' high. I don't have an exact formula for the degree of difficulty.

Even to this day I still find exteriors hard to quote using PEP estimating. I don't have a template for exteriors like I do for interiors. Too many variables.

I just measure it up to determine paint cost and then guesstimate cost per time allotment. I do have a template for doors and windows.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:27 PM   #8
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SG ft I s very easy to use. You get it by us8ng your own production rates and business costs. Check out Len Fife gives a great seminar maybe on you tube.

Great info videos here.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSistersPainting View Post
I was also taught to bid by square foot, but if you dont know your costs and margins then your just giving out random numbers. It will take you some time to analyze your costs over a few jobs. I started out time and material when I went out by myself then took those numbers and was able to get to a square foot rating.

2000 sq ft exterior -

25 Gallons x $30gal = $750 / 2000 sq ft = $.38 sq ft

40 hours x $75hr = $3000 / 2000 sq ft = $1.50 sq ft

Materials (Spray tips, masking, tape, rollers, etc) - $200 / 2000 sq ft = $.10

Overhead - $500 (I always just add $500 for my overhead) = $.25 sq ft

Total = $2.23/sqft, I round it to $2.25.



This would be a super basic plan, every job is different so you should run your numbers ahead of time to make sure your profiting.
Do you know your actual overhead ? Both direct and indirect . Or you just guess
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSistersPainting View Post
I was also taught to bid by square foot, but if you dont know your costs and margins then your just giving out random numbers. It will take you some time to analyze your costs over a few jobs. I started out time and material when I went out by myself then took those numbers and was able to get to a square foot rating.

2000 sq ft exterior -

25 Gallons x $30gal = $750 / 2000 sq ft = $.38 sq ft

40 hours x $75hr = $3000 / 2000 sq ft = $1.50 sq ft

Materials (Spray tips, masking, tape, rollers, etc) - $200 / 2000 sq ft = $.10

Overhead - $500 (I always just add $500 for my overhead) = $.25 sq ft

Total = $2.23/sqft, I round it to $2.25.



This would be a super basic plan, every job is different so you should run your numbers ahead of time to make sure your profiting.
Ya, I'm confused. Are you talking about exterior or interior. Floor or wall space? and how'd ya come up with 25 gals. for 2000 sq. ft.? New Construction or repaint.
I find the sq ft. thing only works if your doing the whole house, as it averages out over the whole project..
It takes just as long(or longer) to paint a 50sq. ft. bathroom as it does a 150 sq. ft bedroom. (most of the time)..So many variables. I price it per room. Itemized.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:15 PM   #11
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These numbers are based off a 2000 sq ft house (floor plan), exterior. For me, it takes 25 gallons of paint. I just ran the numbers how I was taught, wasn't trying to cause confusion.

My overhead for a full exterior is $500, that number decreases on smaller jobs. Overhead covers Gas, Estimated taxes, General Liability Insurance, Van Insurance, Bond, Office Supplies, Office Internet.

When I pay $5000 to the State of Oregon and Federal government in taxes every quarter that money isn't coming out of my pocket. The way I calculate bids and run my numbers is analyzed off past jobs.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSistersPainting View Post
These numbers are based off a 2000 sq ft house (floor plan), exterior. For me, it takes 25 gallons of paint. I just ran the numbers how I was taught, wasn't trying to cause confusion.

My overhead for a full exterior is $500, that number decreases on smaller jobs. Overhead covers Gas, Estimated taxes, General Liability Insurance, Van Insurance, Bond, Office Supplies, Office Internet.

When I pay $5000 to the State of Oregon and Federal government in taxes every quarter that money isn't coming out of my pocket. The way I calculate bids and run my numbers is analyzed off past jobs.
So long as you cover all your business exspenses and labor and health insurance which is huge here. Mine is added into my hourly rate . The smaller you are the higher it is. Less help to spread the cost out.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:11 AM   #13
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I base my bids on how close we are to the summer solstice and whether or not Pluto is considered a planet that week.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:25 PM   #14
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I just finished watching a PDCA webinar on estimating by Fred Yarur of PEP estimating. It's free to all PEP users. There is a series going forward. PDCA members can look for it in the video library section next week.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I just finished watching a PDCA webinar on estimating by Fred Yarur of PEP estimating. It's free to all PEP users. There is a series going forward. PDCA members can look for it in the video library section next week.
Fred is not an estimator. There program for bid proposal is fine not so fine for estimating. A really good all around estimating program is https://devwave.com/estimateworksver...g-software.asp

All these programs are derived from Len Fife or Dan Gleason. One Step was also a very easy to use great excel word based program. Production rate based .
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:28 PM   #16
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Or you can just guess like most do. WAG. Is very easy to use.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:57 PM   #17
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But it seems like double billing. If the painter charges for prep work which would include masking for doors/windows, doesn't deduct for openings, AND charges to paint the doors and windows, that seems excessive.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:27 PM   #18
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Trust me, it is not. Cutting in as you know is very labor intensive. There should be no discounts for opening because if the cutting in.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:01 PM   #19
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An old painter told me long ago.. measure, check those twice then go home do the numbers.. This ain't MC.Donals drive through....
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:57 PM   #20
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measure everything except closets and bathrooms(itemize), stairways add 30% on top of sf. everything else i measure, i also charge windows and doors as wall space
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