What do you guys think for a Tongue and Groove knotty pine porch ceiling in New England in October.
Spot prime knots with 2 coats of BIN (and there is a lot of them)
1 Full coat of Cover Stain
2 Coats of a low luster latex (probably close to a sky blue)
Would a coat of the BM 094 tinted blue over the Cover Stain be overkill?
I've done a wash coat with the color on those and it looks pretty spiffy- if some of the wood showing through is ok.
I used Emulsibond + the finish paint- experiment with proportions.
That seems like overkill. I would think the one coat of bin on knots and an exterior oil primer would be suffecient. If I was than concerned I would just use an oil exterior paint instead of acrylic.
I did a similar job this past summer except it was about 40 year old cedar instead of pine. One coat of BIN Ultimate and two topcoats of acrylic satin off white. Looked great - not one hint of bleed through. Just make sure the HO is aware the knot holes will still be visible. Some people think painting will make everything just disappear.
I'll second the idea of talking to them about the knotholes. The visibility of them after painting could be a real unpleasant surprise if the clients are unaware. That seems to be one of those situations where different expectations lead to extra work, change orders, and bad feelings all around.
Yeah - in the job I did I did gently attempt to get them to be sure of their choice to paint it but they were adamant about it. I just wanted them to understand that once something like that is painted you can't undo it. It had already been stained a darker color and they really wanted a brighter room. I could understand their wish to do so and it's their ceiling so...
I'm not sure how much of a problem the knots bleeding will be. We haven't done any knotty pine in a long time (cedar tends to be used here), but I'd be tempted to do the Cover Stain and see what bleeds through. There might just be just a few that cause problems. Hitting all of the knots with two coats of BIN seems like it might be overkill, not to mention a lot of "hand-up" work.
How about caulking seams? We've done some beadboard ceilings that had a lot of seams that became unsightly when the ceilings were painted. Caulking them was a major part of the projects.
I think the sky blue will be a nice, very traditional, touch.
On my job I quoted them a price for caulking the grooves. It was going to be very expensive. Plus I had to warn them that many seams would likely open back up since it's in the nature of such products to expand and contract. My feeling is if they don't like the grooves or knotholes then just sheet rock over it and be done with it. It's wood for crying out loud.
I think the 094 over the coverstain is overkill. Tint the coverstain to the color of the finish. That is probably the way I would do it if I couldn't talk them into a semi-transparent finish. Keep in mind, even with all that...that you could get some knots burning thru after a while. We used to use the orange shellac rather than the BIIN over knots. It was the standard for a long time, it might be a little better, but the BIN is very effective as well.
As Jacob mentioned, up until a few years ago we probably would have used an oil top coat, but those days are pretty much gone here in NY.
I think the 094 over the coverstain is overkill. Tint the coverstain to the color of the finish. That is probably the way I would do it if I couldn't talk them into a semi-transparent finish. Keep in mind, even with all that...that you could get some knots burning thru after a while. We used to use the orange shellac rather than the BIIN over knots. It was the standard for a long time, it might be a little better, but the BIN is very effective as well.
As Jacob mentioned, up until a few years ago we probably would have used an oil top coat, but those days are pretty much gone here in NY.
Just something to consider - the trouble with spot priming tongue and groove is that there can be nasty spots right at the edges which you may not even be aware of. You may not see them but bleed through can readily occur just the same. That's why I primed that entire cedar job with BIN. I wanted to be absolutely sure of no surprises later.
Using Cover Stain may be adequate but then again...
From my experiences here lately 2 spot primes of Bin over knotty pine doesnt look fine.I have had to put on 3 to keep it from bleedthrough,followed by stainblocking primer.
I did a full basement with 8' ceilings not long ago that was all tongue and groove pine. Took a piece of scrap that had a knot in it so the HO could see what the finished wood would look like.
Anyway, I brushed all the knots with Bullseye clear shellac, brushed on a coat of Coverstain, and finished with 2 coats of Cashmere low-lustre. Using a sprayer on the job wasn't an option, so it was all done by rolling and back-brushing.
I think I used a quart and a half of shellac with some cheap throw-away 3" brushes and a box of nitrate gloves wearing an old long-sleeve tshirt and a good respirator. The nice thing about the brushing of it was it did help to fill in the knots somewhat.
I'm not sure if Zinsser puts dates on their other products like they do SealCoat. The paint stores around here don't sell much shellac, so I'm suspicious of how long it's been sitting around. If we can find a fresh date on the cans of SealCoat, we'll use that for washcoats/conditioner, but we generally make the other cuts up from flakes/buttonlac/or seedlac, depending on what we need.
Clear just doesn't seal those sappy knots ane etc like orange:no:. A lot of the old ( 100 + year old ) houses around here originally had shellac finished trims.
Never sprayed anything except out of a rattle can or a garden sprayer. But a sprayer would have been a sweet way to apply the coverstain.
I did put it on heavy.. rolled it with a 1/2" nap then brushed it with an old 4" china bristle. Does look a little rough up there. Thinking maybe I should have brushed the whole thing. I'm hoping that a light pole sand will bring it around.
Thinking about using BM regal select in something like a low luster. Have never used the regal select before but I was told it had some body and a little build. Now the HO is leaning towards a deep base blue.
That semi-trasparent would have looked real nice.... 1 and done.
That color is close to haint blue, very prevalent here in the south. Pretty cool stories behind it. :thumbsup:
The Significance of Haints
Blue ceilings are popular and have been popular in the South for centuries. “Porch ceilings have always been blue in the South,” says Lori Sawaya, an independent Principal Color Strategist. “People continue to paint their porch ceiling blue because that's what their grandmother did, and that's what her grandmother did.”
But many Southerners suggest that blue porch ceilings originated out of the fear of haints. Southerners, especially in the area of South Carolina, have a name for the ceiling paint used on porches – the soft blue-green is referred to as “Haint Blue.”
“Haints are restless spirits of the dead who, for whatever reason, have not moved on from their physical world,” says Sawaya.
Haint blue, which can also be found on door and window frames as well as porch ceilings, is intended to protect the homeowner from being “taken” or influenced by haints. It is said to protect the house and the occupants of the house from evil.
Yeah really. Instead of painting they should just hang a pre finished beadboard or something. Shoot it up and be done. Lol. Lot of labor to hang pine like that and only to paying over it.
I've put stain on stuff like that. It tends to have that wax on it. The stain doesn't soak on to good. Kind of lays on it and slides around alot on application.
Those planks are probably around 6" wide. Carpentry work was only ok.
Ended up being:
1) spot prime knots with amber shellac
2) spot prime knots with bin
3) full coat of zinser cover stain
4) full coat of tinted Ben Moore 094 oil base primer
5) 2 full coats Ben Moore Regal Select satin
all brushed.
Sad part is this will be a callback. The customer said it looks like a million small bugs got stuck to where the knots are. I looked at it from the ground and I thought it was the knots that were bleeding through. Broke my heart. Haven't looked at it close enough yet to figure out what happened.
I painted it all in November with temps between 50 and 60 degrees... Always the warmest part of the day. Oh well so much for trying to do something right.
Dumb q, but why did you spot prime with amber shellac of all things? Why not super blonde or something, p.s. I wouldn't use shellac outside, be to afraid it would pop/crack.
Bugs? Weird. Oil based stuff can have a slow dry time, maybe try shooting with latex with an accelerator added in?
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