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Old 04-21-2018, 06:24 PM   #1
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Default Toughest waterborne options?

Hi folks,

Iím looking to respray kitchen cabinets in house. Iím looking for a product to shoot hvlp tinted white.

Considering itís inside Iím looking for waterborne products instead of solvents which Iím used to. Iíve been researching products but having difficulty reaching a conclusion on the toughest products currently available.

What would be your reccomendations in a kitchen setting?

So far a short list Ive compiled:

PPG Breakthrough
BM Advance
SW Kem Aqua
SW 2k Acrylic
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Old 04-21-2018, 06:34 PM   #2
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I like Para's Ultra Melamine Hybrid / Cabinet & Furniture. I have only ever brushed it but the toughness and leveling quality is the best I ever used and it seems to dry and be reasonably cured after 24 hours. I just started using it this past year and have done 3 sets of kitchen cabinets with it. I won't use anything else, now.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:00 PM   #3
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PPG Breaktrough, dries fast and hard, no primer needed in most cases.

Advance looks better but dries slow...
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:29 PM   #4
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Cabinet coat is awesome, except it 'mars' easily. Dries quick, and rock hard, sticks to anything, cant scratch it with a key. Except the marring part, but Im using it anyway. Scuff-x, as well, but I havent tried it yet. Also Durapoxy is pretty good. Its most like a regular latex paint.
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Old 04-21-2018, 10:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
Cabinet coat is awesome, except it 'mars' easily. Dries quick, and rock hard, sticks to anything, cant scratch it with a key. Except the marring part, but Im using it anyway. Scuff-x, as well, but I havent tried it yet. Also Durapoxy is pretty good. Its most like a regular latex paint.
Mentioned this in another thread but CC will be getting an update to be available in more 1-4 bases soon not sure if any other properties will change cannot be tinted on gennex unfortunately. Scuff-X getting a 'anti-chipping' semi-gloss. AND another premium paint will be getting a formula update soon.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:35 PM   #6
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Just curious, have you had success shooting heavier waterborne products through a HVLP?
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Mentioned this in another thread but CC will be getting an update to be available in more 1-4 bases soon not sure if any other properties will change cannot be tinted on gennex unfortunately. Scuff-X getting a 'anti-chipping' semi-gloss. AND another premium paint will be getting a formula update soon.
My BM store said theyd be available in about a month.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
Cabinet coat is awesome, except it 'mars' easily. Dries quick, and rock hard, sticks to anything, cant scratch it with a key. Except the marring part, but Im using it anyway. Scuff-x, as well, but I havent tried it yet. Also Durapoxy is pretty good. Its most like a regular latex paint.
What do you mean by marring?
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:26 AM   #9
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Default Cali/Muralo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazten View Post
Hi folks,

Iím looking to respray kitchen cabinets in house. Iím looking for a product to shoot hvlp tinted white.

Considering itís inside Iím looking for waterborne products instead of solvents which Iím used to. Iíve been researching products but having difficulty reaching a conclusion on the toughest products currently available.

What would be your reccomendations in a kitchen setting?

So far a short list Ive compiled:

PPG Breakthrough
BM Advance
SW Kem Aqua
SW 2k Acrylic
Cazten, I don't do spraying currently, but I am going to broach this sbuject here to see what others have to say.

Years ago I switched from Satin Impervo oil for trim work to Muralo Ultra Ceramic. Back in the 1980s I sprayed some wide-slat horizontal wood blinds in my driveway with Muralo Ultra Ceramic using an HPLV setup. The blinds came out very good. I spoke with the customer a couple of years ago and she said the blinds are still looking good. I have to think that this paint is very tough and would work for cabinets.

Does anyone here have current experience spraying the current California incarnation of the Ultra Ceramic on cabinets? How about California Ultra Plate?

futtyos
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
What do you mean by marring?
If you lightly drag the back of a fingernail on the painted surface, even months later, you can see a track in the sheen when viewed from an angle. Its called marring. With satin, the track looks a little shinier, with semigloss, it looks a little duller. Its the ONLY thing bad about cabinet coat, but its kind of a big flaw.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:03 PM   #11
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Thanks for the formulation update @cocomonkeynuts . The store's typically don't keep us contractors updated on this kind of stuff....despite how critical it is for our survival.

@RH ... even on the six stage setting of capspray 115, a diluted product is required for a fine finish. Heavy tinted breakthrough needs max recommended dilution. Non tinted- water is advisable for retarding the drying, not so much for actual application. Shooting and drying in a cool area has the same effect. And, basically everyone here should know how thin the white is standard.

Anyone who doesn't know, please contact your local ppg rep for a demo.

From what I understand, the story is similar with Kem aqua +, except cooler temps aren't advised and the use of butyl is recommend


With reformulations....i think this conversation on cabinets will never end.


The word is still unclear on the reformulated sayerlack products. It seems mostly negative, but I still have a glint of hope in my eye.

as for ultra plate....the lack of availability has me thinking I need to get rich and open a few CA paint stores!
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:59 PM   #12
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This is a project I am working on. Generalfinishes Enduro White Poly waterbourne semigloss unthinned through Graco 4900 # 3 tip. Turbine set on 2nd stage BIN primer 2 coats on backs 3 coats on front. T7 (top 7) back and front. Zoom in on flash and you can see the difference in quality between fronts and back.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Cazten, I don't do spraying currently, but I am going to broach this sbuject here to see what others have to say.



Years ago I switched from Satin Impervo oil for trim work to Muralo Ultra Ceramic. Back in the 1980s I sprayed some wide-slat horizontal wood blinds in my driveway with Muralo Ultra Ceramic using an HPLV setup. The blinds came out very good. I spoke with the customer a couple of years ago and she said the blinds are still looking good. I have to think that this paint is very tough and would work for cabinets.



Does anyone here have current experience spraying the current California incarnation of the Ultra Ceramic on cabinets? How about California Ultra Plate?



futtyos


I have used California Paints Ultra Aquabourne Ceramic on my sisterís oak cabinets(sprayed doors, rolled boxes). Primed with low odor oil. It is holding up well, except where her bulldogs scratch at the doors.

Ultra sprays great. The company I work for uses it for all of the painted Millwork and Door jobs we do. The product levels out really well. We have sprayed it through an AAA, an airless and HVLP(thinned).

Only negative of this product is blocking. If you stack finish to finish, it wants to stick together. I told my sister to wait at least 7 days before installing the doors just to be safe.

We used Ultraplate once on some millwork. It seems similar to Ultra Aqua but with only 1 sheen and 1 base and a quicker dry/re-coat.




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Old 04-22-2018, 04:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Cazten, I don't do spraying currently, but I am going to broach this sbuject here to see what others have to say.

Years ago I switched from Satin Impervo oil for trim work to Muralo Ultra Ceramic. Back in the 1980s I sprayed some wide-slat horizontal wood blinds in my driveway with Muralo Ultra Ceramic using an HPLV setup. The blinds came out very good. I spoke with the customer a couple of years ago and she said the blinds are still looking good. I have to think that this paint is very tough and would work for cabinets.

Does anyone here have current experience spraying the current California incarnation of the Ultra Ceramic on cabinets? How about California Ultra Plate?

futtyos
I have used Ultra on walls (egshell), like it a lot. But, have not used any of the sheens one would use on cabinets. I have use Ultraplate a few tims on shelvea and cabinets. Love it. Hardest paint that I have used....at least it appears to be so.

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Old 04-22-2018, 04:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jengebretson2 View Post
I have used California Paints Ultra Aquabourne Ceramic on my sisterís oak cabinets(sprayed doors, rolled boxes). Primed with low odor oil. It is holding up well, except where her bulldogs scratch at the doors.

Ultra sprays great. The company I work for uses it for all of the painted Millwork and Door jobs we do. The product levels out really well. We have sprayed it through an AAA, an airless and HVLP(thinned).

Only negative of this product is blocking. If you stack finish to finish, it wants to stick together. I told my sister to wait at least 7 days before installing the doors just to be safe.

We used Ultraplate once on some millwork. It seems similar to Ultra Aqua but with only 1 sheen and 1 base and a quicker dry/re-coat.




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What tip size did you use to spray the Ultraplate with an airless and AAA?

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Old 04-22-2018, 04:51 PM   #16
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Default Toughest waterborne options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbriggs82 View Post
What tip size did you use to spray the Ultraplate with an airless and AAA?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

We only sprayed the Ultraplate once and I am guessing the boss used a 514 tip on the airless.

When we spray Ultra Aquabourne Ceramic we use the setups below:

Our AAA rigs are a Graco 595 and Kremlin 30:1 with Kremlin Airmix Guns on both. Tip orifice is .013 and fan is 9Ē 40degree @ 10Ē distance.

Airless tips 412, 514, or whatever tip size is in the spray box, lol.





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Old 04-22-2018, 04:54 PM   #17
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A tinted poly is probably a good choice.

A two-part product is always going to be stronger, but you have to look at blocking because some 2 parts actually dry on the softer side (wall paint). With that said, a catalyzed or 2 part product is my vote, brands aside.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
If you lightly drag the back of a fingernail on the painted surface, even months later, you can see a track in the sheen when viewed from an angle. Its called marring. With satin, the track looks a little shinier, with semigloss, it looks a little duller. Its the ONLY thing bad about cabinet coat, but its kind of a big flaw.
Hmm. Reminds me of the supposedly washable matt paints..
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:50 PM   #19
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So many products mentioned here are not available in Canada, that I can see. Even many PPG products do not cross the border.
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