Valuable Lesson Learned.......Again - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2010, 10:40 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southwest, IA
Posts: 47
Rewards Points: 25
Thanks: 20
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
View NaeGan's Photo Album My Photos
Default Valuable Lesson Learned.......Again

I learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I was up late Saturday trying to finish spraying some wood storm windows. There were 16 of them and I could fit 10 of them lined up on the contraption I made. I finally got tired and didn't want to wait for the paint to set up a little so I could switch them. Finished up the next day and went to the house to rehang them because my deadline is coming up Thursday and I have a wood floor to work on yet. As I was sorting them out to rehang them and clean the glass it all of the sudden hit me.......what about my time to clean the glass and hang them. I only figured in time to actually paint them. Not to remove them, clean the glass and rehang them. Not a lot of time, but an hr. and a half is an hr. and a half. Then I realized I did the same thing on interior doors I sprayed last fall. I didn't have to rehang them, but I didn't charge for them time to remove four sets of sliding closet doors and the tracks before I painted the doors and frames. Do that enough times in a year and that sure as hell adds up. Won't make that mistake again.

Last edited by Workaholic; 06-28-2010 at 10:49 PM.. Reason: I trashed the other one and brought this one back
NaeGan is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2010, 10:46 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,257
Rewards Points: 1,076
Thanks: 1,564
Thanked 1,311 Times in 724 Posts
View Rcon's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeGan View Post
I learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I was up late Saturday trying to finish spraying some wood storm windows. There were 16 of them and I could fit 10 of them lined up on the contraption I made. I finally got tired and didn't want to wait for the paint to set up a little so I could switch them. Finished up the next day and went to the house to rehang them because my deadline is coming up Thursday and I have a wood floor to work on yet. As I was sorting them out to rehang them and clean the glass it all of the sudden hit me.......what about my time to clean the glass and hang them. I only figured in time to actually paint them. Not to remove them, clean the glass and rehang them. Not a lot of time, but an hr. and a half is an hr. and a half. Then I realized I did the same thing on interior doors I sprayed last fall. I didn't have to rehang them, but I didn't charge for them time to remove four sets of sliding closet doors and the tracks before I painted the doors and frames. Do that enough times in a year and that sure as hell adds up. Won't make that mistake again.
Things like this are why I like to take some time in my office to review my notes and think about all the little details before I send out a bid - instead of doing 'on-the-spot' quotes.

It's not the big things that get ya, it's the little details that are often overlooked.
Rcon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rcon For This Useful Post:
[email protected] (06-29-2010), nEighter (06-29-2010)
Old 06-28-2010, 10:51 PM   #3
.
 
Workaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Huntsville Alabama
Posts: 17,818
Rewards Points: 2,486
Thanks: 6,245
Thanked 6,705 Times in 4,460 Posts
View Workaholic's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I got rid of the duplicate


Bet you don't do that again.

How many windows on the doors? I usually tape the glass off rather than clean them.
Workaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Workaholic For This Useful Post:
NaeGan (06-29-2010)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2010, 11:50 PM   #4
Handle with care
 
TDTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greater Vancouver Region, BC
Posts: 226
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 104
Thanked 96 Times in 63 Posts
View TDTD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcon View Post
Things like this are why I like to take some time in my office to review my notes and think about all the little details before I send out a bid - instead of doing 'on-the-spot' quotes.

It's not the big things that get ya, it's the little details that are often overlooked.
Couldn't agree more!

I've created a spreadsheet with Excel c/w lookup tables for pricing of the various materials I use as well as the various rates I charge for all the different types of work I do. This lookup table is linked to the worksheet I use to type out my proposal for my client. I type out the entire scope of work I'm quoting on step by step c/w an estimate of the time and materials required for each step, (which is linked to the lookup table). Once this is all done, I have a complete breakdown of all the steps and costs involved in the project and I can review the job from start to finish to tweak a few numbers as well as ensure that I haven't missed anything. At least half the time I come across something I overlooked.

Once I'm satisfied with my proposal, I hide all the rows on the worksheet I don't want my client to see and print it off for presentation to them. I've been using this system for quite some time and find it to be a very helpful tool in my estimating process.

One drawback to this system...it is somewhat time consuming, but I look at it as I'd rather spend a little more time up front developing an accurate, well thought out proposal than a lot of time during the job wishing I would have spent a little more time up front developing an accurate, well thought out proposal.
__________________
Rob

Every day is an adventure...enjoy today and look forward to tomorrow!
TDTD is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TDTD For This Useful Post:
NaeGan (06-29-2010)
Old 06-29-2010, 12:11 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southwest, IA
Posts: 47
Rewards Points: 25
Thanks: 20
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
View NaeGan's Photo Album My Photos
Default

There were 16 wood storm windows and 2 storm doors. They were out of liquid mask and I really needed to get them done. This house still had the original single hung wood windows in it and the sills are 6 feet off the ground on the outside so I had to make sure the top pane on the inside was very clean before I put them in. I've found that Clorox wipes remove paint off glass really well. Kinda stumbled across that one day.

That system sounds likes its very accurate. It may consume time initially, but once you've entered a lot of scenarios, it sound great. I'll have to consider that. And thanks for removing my duplicate. Another lesson learned.

Last edited by NaeGan; 06-29-2010 at 12:12 AM.. Reason: Forgot a thanks.
NaeGan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 10:14 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
straight_lines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, N.C.
Posts: 7,822
Rewards Points: 1,574
Thanks: 5,686
Thanked 5,171 Times in 2,980 Posts
View straight_lines's Photo Album My Photos
Send a message via Yahoo to straight_lines
Default

Yea work up an excel sheet or modify someone elses. Will help you to never forget removal/assembly labor if you put in a category for it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Primer makes everything better...
straight_lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 02:48 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I think most companies around here give that work away for free. I am still trying to figure out what they actually charge for..
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:34 PM   #8
Born To Be Mild
 
bikerboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 4,956
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 2,450
Thanked 1,704 Times in 1,000 Posts
View bikerboy's Photo Album My Photos
Default

We use an estimate sheet. It has columns across the top, (color, #of coats, time for set up, clean up, applying paint, ect) Maybe making something like that would help.
__________________
People who say they want a government program because “I don’t want to be a burden to my children” apparently think it is all right to be a burden to other people’s children. Thomas Sowell
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bikerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 11:29 PM   #9
Almost Gone
 
TJ Paint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wind River Range
Posts: 10,730
Rewards Points: 516
Thanks: 4,949
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,759 Posts
View TJ Paint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

yeah this last job I had, I didn't think to account $.75 for this toll bridge I went over a couple times. cost me like 3 bucks when it was all said and done.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TJ Paint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 11:33 PM   #10
Almost Gone
 
TJ Paint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wind River Range
Posts: 10,730
Rewards Points: 516
Thanks: 4,949
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,759 Posts
View TJ Paint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDTD View Post
Couldn't agree more!

I've created a spreadsheet with Excel c/w lookup tables for pricing of the various materials I use as well as the various rates I charge for all the different types of work I do. This lookup table is linked to the worksheet I use to type out my proposal for my client. I type out the entire scope of work I'm quoting on step by step c/w an estimate of the time and materials required for each step, (which is linked to the lookup table). Once this is all done, I have a complete breakdown of all the steps and costs involved in the project and I can review the job from start to finish to tweak a few numbers as well as ensure that I haven't missed anything. At least half the time I come across something I overlooked.

Once I'm satisfied with my proposal, I hide all the rows on the worksheet I don't want my client to see and print it off for presentation to them. I've been using this system for quite some time and find it to be a very helpful tool in my estimating process.

One drawback to this system...it is somewhat time consuming, but I look at it as I'd rather spend a little more time up front developing an accurate, well thought out proposal than a lot of time during the job wishing I would have spent a little more time up front developing an accurate, well thought out proposal.
yeah u can do all that or do what my first painting boss told me about estimating: figure out how long its going to take and double it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TJ Paint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TJ Paint For This Useful Post:
ewingpainting.net (06-30-2010), nEighter (06-30-2010)
Old 06-30-2010, 02:28 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southwest, IA
Posts: 47
Rewards Points: 25
Thanks: 20
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
View NaeGan's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Dang! I forgot about the toll bridge. I will definitely add in that category.
NaeGan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NaeGan For This Useful Post:
TJ Paint (06-30-2010)
Old 06-30-2010, 03:20 AM   #12
Handle with care
 
TDTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greater Vancouver Region, BC
Posts: 226
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 104
Thanked 96 Times in 63 Posts
View TDTD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Paint View Post
yeah u can do all that or do what my first painting boss told me about estimating: figure out how long its going to take and double it.
Yup, that works too! A simple, shoot-from-the-hip approach that can be surprisingly accurate. Hmmn...maybe I'll turf the spreadsheet.

Cheers,
__________________
Rob

Every day is an adventure...enjoy today and look forward to tomorrow!
TDTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 03:27 AM   #13
Almost Gone
 
TJ Paint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wind River Range
Posts: 10,730
Rewards Points: 516
Thanks: 4,949
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,759 Posts
View TJ Paint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDTD View Post
Yup, that works too! A simple, shoot-from-the-hip approach that can be surprisingly accurate. Hmmn...maybe I'll turf the spreadsheet.

Cheers,
naw, its not shoot from the hip. Its figuring it out pretty close, but doubling or adding because there are always things that come up, forgotten, something breaks down. I guess, for me, after several years doing this, you get a feel for what kind of job its going to be. Each job has its challenges, and blindsides. Compensating for the unseen is the only true way to cover all the bases. The idea of doubling it stems from these unseen issues that always arise. Doubling is not always necessary. Its the idea that you probably won't get the time down to the hour, and just one setback could cost you half or a whole day.

If you think you got everything figured out exactly time wise, and this happens, you just lost your profit. Buffering for the breakdowns and blindsides is an art, at least in that, it takes intuition. Its the unseen, unanticipated. You can't measure it. You can't quantify it. But you know when a job is more susceptible to it than others. This is what is behind it. Its after you got all the time figured out on your spreadsheet or notebook and have broken the job down, the time that slips away somehow. Its measuring that time. Its like drawing an echo.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by TJ Paint; 06-30-2010 at 03:38 AM..
TJ Paint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TJ Paint For This Useful Post:
gamby (07-01-2010)
Old 06-30-2010, 03:41 AM   #14
Handle with care
 
TDTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greater Vancouver Region, BC
Posts: 226
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 104
Thanked 96 Times in 63 Posts
View TDTD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Paint View Post
naw, its not shoot from the hip. Its figuring it out pretty close, but doubling or adding because there are always things that come up, forgotten, something breaks down. I guess, for me, after several years doing this, you get a feel for what kind of job its going to be. Each job has its challenges, and blindsides. Compensating for the unseen is the only true way to cover all the bases. The idea of doubling it stems from these unseen issues that always arise. Doubling is not always necessary. Its the idea that you probably won't get the time down to the hour, and just one setback could cost you half or a whole day.

If you think you got everything figured out exactly time wise, and this happens, you just lost your profit. Buffering for the breakdowns and blindsides is an art, at least in that, it takes a intuition. Its the unseen, unanticipated. You can't measure it. You can't quantify it. But you know when a job is more susceptible to it than others. This is what is behind it. Its after you got all the time figured out on your spreadsheet or notebook and have broken the job down, the time that slips away somehow. Its measuring that time. Its like drawing an echo.
Agreed! Yer talkin' about; "Street smarts", "Savvy", AKA Experience! You can't just pick up a book and read how to do this, it comes with time. Although, there is a school I go to that is very, very helpful. It's called "The School of Hard Knocks".
__________________
Rob

Every day is an adventure...enjoy today and look forward to tomorrow!
TDTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lesson Learned michfan Tools, Supplies and Equipment 6 02-25-2013 12:49 AM
What can be learned from this guy? nEighter Business, Marketing, and Sales 25 05-19-2009 12:58 AM
Lesson on Employee Records HomeGuardPaints General Painting Discussion 4 02-06-2009 01:32 AM
Lesson Learned Ball's Surface Preparation and Application 4 01-20-2008 10:06 PM
A lesson learned Rich Surface Preparation and Application 20 12-17-2007 04:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com