White Coverage - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion

Like Tree13Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2020, 02:51 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
SweetLu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 119
Rewards Points: 158
Thanks: 64
Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts
View SweetLu's Photo Album My Photos
Default White Coverage

I know this has been brought up before, but for the life of me, I can’t find a system of painting white over a dark colour that isn’t 4 coats worth. Whether it’s 2 primer, 2 finish, or 4 finish, or 1 prime and 3 finish, it always takes 4 coats.

I recently lost out on a project because I quoted it knowing it’d take 4 coats, and they went with a company that quoted for 3 coats. (Personally I think they’re gonna need to do a 4th anyway, and charge the customer for it anyway but who cares if so)

Do you guys have a reliable, consistent system or product where you can go white over dark colours where it looks great with only 3 coats?
SweetLu is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-13-2020, 03:38 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,862
Rewards Points: 2,864
Thanks: 11,233
Thanked 9,661 Times in 5,500 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLu View Post
I know this has been brought up before, but for the life of me, I canít find a system of painting white over a dark colour that isnít 4 coats worth. Whether itís 2 primer, 2 finish, or 4 finish, or 1 prime and 3 finish, it always takes 4 coats.

I recently lost out on a project because I quoted it knowing itíd take 4 coats, and they went with a company that quoted for 3 coats. (Personally I think theyíre gonna need to do a 4th anyway, and charge the customer for it anyway but who cares if so)

Do you guys have a reliable, consistent system or product where you can go white over dark colours where it looks great with only 3 coats?

Spraying will cover in two coats, no problem. I've sprayed white over black and it covered great by spraying
Lightningboy65 likes this.
CApainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 04:32 PM   #3
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,337
Rewards Points: 7,082
Thanks: 11,894
Thanked 15,559 Times in 8,203 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Been using lots of Duration in the past year or so and even on the biggest contrasts have not had to do more than two coats with whites (except if a bright red is being covered). Of course most of the whites I use have a little bit of tint in them, rarely just straight out of the can. And, we have textures on most of our wall and ceiling surfaces which may make a slight difference.
Lynchburg likes this.
__________________
ďGetting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery.Ē

Bill Watterson
RH is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-13-2020, 05:30 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 504
Rewards Points: 85
Thanks: 16
Thanked 99 Times in 74 Posts
View jr.sr. painting's Photo Album My Photos
Default

3 coats should take care of youíre issue. 1 primer and two finish. When we get jobs that the walls ceiling and trim are all white I actually spring for pc latex satin. Ceilings are 400 flat and walls/trim get the same product. It helps with being able to make thinner cut in lines along the trim. That seems to be the spot that always look the worst. The pc package white covers well for being a white.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jr.sr. painting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 07:16 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 690
Rewards Points: 1,382
Thanks: 14
Thanked 56 Times in 49 Posts
View Vylum's Photo Album My Photos
Default

if the client is adamant about snow white im not sure theres anything you can do
Vylum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 09:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Red State
Posts: 1,095
Rewards Points: 800
Thanks: 1,025
Thanked 889 Times in 433 Posts
View Gwarel's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I agree that 3 coats should cover. Maybe try adding some black tint to the primer coat to make the first coat less translucent. I have used PPG Ultra Hide flat white in a high hide formula on the first coat, it covers very well.
Gwarel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 10:02 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago near north suburbs
Posts: 1,394
Rewards Points: 2,830
Thanks: 552
Thanked 337 Times in 261 Posts
View futtyos's Photo Album My Photos
Default My experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLu View Post
I know this has been brought up before, but for the life of me, I canít find a system of painting white over a dark colour that isnít 4 coats worth. Whether itís 2 primer, 2 finish, or 4 finish, or 1 prime and 3 finish, it always takes 4 coats.

I recently lost out on a project because I quoted it knowing itíd take 4 coats, and they went with a company that quoted for 3 coats. (Personally I think theyíre gonna need to do a 4th anyway, and charge the customer for it anyway but who cares if so)

Do you guys have a reliable, consistent system or product where you can go white over dark colours where it looks great with only 3 coats?
On the last condo I did there was a scrap of laminate from the kitchen cabinets that was very dark brown. One of the wall colors was a light off-white in Behr Premium Plus Flat. Using a 5/16" nap Wooster Micro Plush I rolled 3 coats onto this board, overlapping the 2nd and 3rd coats by 1/3 each. The 2nd coat almost nailed it, but 3 coats of this paint definitely covered:

White Coverage-p1350027.jpg

White Coverage-p1350028.jpg

On the current condo I am working on we are using BM for all the walls. I will see if I can find another dark scrap and do another test.

A few years ago I painted a dark brown garage door to match the cream colored siding. I rolled 2 coats of tinted 123 and one coat of satin finish, Behr I think. I started to cut in a 2nd coat of Behr on either side of the door and I can definitely see that 2 finish coats were needed. The owner was happy with 1 coat, so.............go figure. Looks like that was a 4 coat job.

futtyos
finishesbykevyn likes this.

Last edited by futtyos; 02-13-2020 at 10:37 PM.. Reason: left out something
futtyos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 10:21 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,822
Rewards Points: 1,482
Thanks: 54
Thanked 245 Times in 213 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post

On the current condo I am working on we are using BM for all the walls. I will see if I can find another dark scrap and do another test.

futtyos
The problem area would be the cut ins...no cut ins on that. All rolling. Really not a good indicator. Most quality paints would cover in three coats, some even two maybe, if just rolling.
futtyos likes this.
Lightningboy65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 06:12 AM   #9
Kev D.
 
finishesbykevyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newfoundland Can.
Posts: 1,723
Rewards Points: 1,243
Thanks: 397
Thanked 234 Times in 202 Posts
View finishesbykevyn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Use A quality Flat White Ceiling paint for first coat, then Regal Matt or Aura Matt for top coats..MAtt will cover better than eggshell. imo.
SS_painting likes this.
finishesbykevyn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to finishesbykevyn For This Useful Post:
vwbowman (02-18-2020)
Old 02-14-2020, 06:44 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Pete Martin the Painter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gloucester, MA
Posts: 2,183
Rewards Points: 228
Thanks: 1,516
Thanked 820 Times in 460 Posts
View Pete Martin the Painter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

If you have a California dealer near by try its Ultra. I have been really impressed when I have used it. I do not think I have used in a white yet, but when I used in a bright red, it look almost passible with one coat.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk
futtyos likes this.
__________________
Ancora Imparo (I'm Still Learning)--Michelangelo

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pete Martin the Painter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:31 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago near north suburbs
Posts: 1,394
Rewards Points: 2,830
Thanks: 552
Thanked 337 Times in 261 Posts
View futtyos's Photo Album My Photos
Default Cut ins vs rolling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightningboy65 View Post
The problem area would be the cut ins...no cut ins on that. All rolling. Really not a good indicator. Most quality paints would cover in three coats, some even two maybe, if just rolling.
Lb65, you make a good point, however, I have always been able to cut in with better coverage than just rolling, sometimes being able to get away with cutting in once where I could not also do so with rolling just one coat.

I would imagine that I would easily be able to cover this dark brown board with 2 cut-ins, but perhaps that is something to be seen on each job and with each particular paint.

futtyos

Last edited by futtyos; 02-14-2020 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: left out something
futtyos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:41 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago near north suburbs
Posts: 1,394
Rewards Points: 2,830
Thanks: 552
Thanked 337 Times in 261 Posts
View futtyos's Photo Album My Photos
Default Never tried this

Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
Use A quality Flat White Ceiling paint for first coat, then Regal Matt or Aura Matt for top coats..MAtt will cover better than eggshell. imo.
fbk, I have never tried this, but I have found that an eggshell finish will seal a surface pretty well, possibly better than Gardz. I would think that painting a flat over a sealed surface will give better coverage than over a flat paint as the flat is porous and sucks in the water from whatever paint is applied on top of it, leaving an uneven finish. I will have to try your suggestion sometime.

futtyos
futtyos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 01:06 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,822
Rewards Points: 1,482
Thanks: 54
Thanked 245 Times in 213 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Lb65, you make a good point, however, I have always been able to cut in with better coverage than just rolling, sometimes being able to get away with cutting in once where I could not also do so with rolling just one coat.

I would imagine that I would easily be able to cover this dark brown board with 2 cut-ins, but perhaps that is something to be seen on each job and with each particular paint.

futtyos
I've always had more trouble with the cut in...or at least the area where the rolling and cut in meet blending into one uniform coat.

Different strokes for different folks!
(yeah, I said it....kinda corny, I know! Good God...saying corny is kinda corny...it's a never ending cycle.)
Lightningboy65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 01:09 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,822
Rewards Points: 1,482
Thanks: 54
Thanked 245 Times in 213 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
Use A quality Flat White Ceiling paint for first coat, then Regal Matt or Aura Matt for top coats..MAtt will cover better than eggshell. imo.
Only thing with this is if you have any holidays on the final coat, the sheen difference will show.

I know...just don't have any holidays. But as careful as you are, sometimes it happens.
Lightningboy65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 03:17 PM   #15
Kev D.
 
finishesbykevyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newfoundland Can.
Posts: 1,723
Rewards Points: 1,243
Thanks: 397
Thanked 234 Times in 202 Posts
View finishesbykevyn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightningboy65 View Post
Only thing with this is if you have any holidays on the final coat, the sheen difference will show.

I know...just don't have any holidays. But as careful as you are, sometimes it happens.
I meant use the ceiling as a primer then 2 more coats of Regal..
Lightningboy65 likes this.
finishesbykevyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 03:25 PM   #16
Kev D.
 
finishesbykevyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newfoundland Can.
Posts: 1,723
Rewards Points: 1,243
Thanks: 397
Thanked 234 Times in 202 Posts
View finishesbykevyn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
fbk, I have never tried this, but I have found that an eggshell finish will seal a surface pretty well, possibly better than Gardz. I would think that painting a flat over a sealed surface will give better coverage than over a flat paint as the flat is porous and sucks in the water from whatever paint is applied on top of it, leaving an uneven finish. I will have to try your suggestion sometime.

futtyos
I find the flats have way more hide in them for going over dark colours. More solids I guess..Also,The wall is already sealed from previous paints anyhow.
PLus flat ceiling paint is cheap. I just primed my gawd awful orange kitchen with some white BM Ultra Spec flat. Covered amazing..
finishesbykevyn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to finishesbykevyn For This Useful Post:
Gwarel (02-15-2020)
Old 02-14-2020, 03:33 PM   #17
Moderator
 
Wildbill7145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,240
Rewards Points: 5,756
Thanks: 3,976
Thanked 4,600 Times in 2,555 Posts
View Wildbill7145's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Just had to three coat a living room today with BM's Woodland Snow in Regal eggshell. Kind of a very slight pale pinky colour or pink undertones or whatever you want to call it. Knew it was gonna be a problem when they were mixing it. One quick shot of red, one of yellow. Immediately I said "Oh dear God. That's it? Crap."
CApainter and finishesbykevyn like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wildbill7145 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 06:15 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,008
Rewards Points: 2,022
Thanks: 72
Thanked 129 Times in 107 Posts
View Mr Smith's Photo Album My Photos
Default

When in doubt use Aura. It's the best covering white I know of. Use the matte for the first two coats and eggshell (or matte) for the third.
vwbowman likes this.
Mr Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mr Smith For This Useful Post:
vwbowman (02-18-2020)
Old 02-19-2020, 07:27 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Laguna Niguel, Ca
Posts: 28
Rewards Points: 46
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View mDUB562's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I recommend, using an in between gray primer. It is not logical how well gray works and it works just as well going dark as it does light.
mDUB562 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 10:56 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 690
Rewards Points: 1,382
Thanks: 14
Thanked 56 Times in 49 Posts
View Vylum's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildbill7145 View Post
Just had to three coat a living room today with BM's Woodland Snow in Regal eggshell. Kind of a very slight pale pinky colour or pink undertones or whatever you want to call it. Knew it was gonna be a problem when they were mixing it. One quick shot of red, one of yellow. Immediately I said "Oh dear God. That's it? Crap."
i know painters dont like to get involved in color selection but i always do what i can to steer people anyway from pure stark whites on repaints(not saying you should of here)
Wildbill7145 likes this.
Vylum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com