Why is money a forbidden topic here? - Page 2 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion

Like Tree105Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-04-2019, 10:54 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WV
Posts: 495
Rewards Points: 120
Thanks: 24
Thanked 139 Times in 103 Posts
View ParamountPaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Everyone here is just trying to make a living. Some are better than others at it, but when you boil it all down, we're all just trying to pay the bills and have a little left over to enjoy.
jennifertemple and Brushman4 like this.
ParamountPaint is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ParamountPaint For This Useful Post:
Delta Painting (11-05-2019), Wolfgang (11-05-2019)

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-05-2019, 11:50 AM   #22
Member
 
APPNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View APPNW's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I think a lot can be learned from attaching a price to a story, especially for newer contractors like me who may or may not have gotten hands on training doin things like bidding jobs. A lot of mistakes could be avoided, one being leaving too much money on the table.
Instead we have to eat from the scraps we are thrown by you old dogs. And if you didnt "earn it" you probably arent eating here. Just my observation.

Location plays a huge role, so prices really dont mean much unless your looking at the big picture, like the cost of living where your working, cost of operation, etc. But if all that is considered, discussing how you get to tree fiddy really would benefit so many here.
Sadly enough if i need a technical explanation or answer to a monetary based question answered about work, this is not the place to do that. Stupid really.
APPNW is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:00 PM   #23
King Dude
 
Rbriggs82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 6,462
Rewards Points: 5,002
Thanks: 4,807
Thanked 5,062 Times in 2,881 Posts
View Rbriggs82's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Asking how to get to a profitable hourly rate is perfectly fine and I'm sure you'd get a lot of helpful responses.

Asking how much to charge for something, how much people make a year, or what people are charging the answer will always be tree fiddy.

You should not ask what people are charging rather how did they get to that number.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rbriggs82 is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rbriggs82 For This Useful Post:
Delta Painting (11-05-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-05-2019, 12:08 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Central Florida/Mount Dora
Posts: 2,337
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 4,778
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,272 Posts
View SemiproJohn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I have to disagree. There have been plenty of posts written in the past that provide a good framework for newbie painting contractors to get started.


Do some research, you will get some answers on here. That being said, I don't think there is a trade or business in existence whose more experienced/successful owners willingly provide "all the answers" to newcomers. This is still a competitive society. Yet, many do provide some of the answers. It's no different here.


You obviously are aware of regional differences and size of companies affecting pricing.
__________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
SemiproJohn is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:26 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 12
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
View juanvaldez's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Nobody talks about $$ because it is a competition based trade. If everyone tells everyone else how much they charge, inevitably someone will come in below that rate and get the job. There are a lot of people looking or trolling all forums as well as here. It’s not that it’s not a reasonable question, it’s more of a personal business choice, which is why everyone charges a different rate. It takes time and experience to figure out what YOUR RATES are, not just copy someone. This place is good for ‘experiences’, ‘laughter’, ‘how to’,
and general information.

IMO, if you want to talk $$ politics and religion, you’re in the wrong place. Although I really have no problem with those topics, which I’d gladly discuss, most people can’t handle it as the pendulum swings back and forth.
I’ll share info if you PM me.
My .02$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
juanvaldez is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to juanvaldez For This Useful Post:
Delta Painting (11-05-2019)
Old 11-05-2019, 12:28 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,220
Rewards Points: 1,580
Thanks: 11,180
Thanked 9,580 Times in 5,440 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

When exploring how much someone should and could earn, I think it's the responsibility of the individual to do their own home work, and exercise their own abilities in the environment they are tying to compete in rather than to simply try and obtain an earnings number based on someone else's knowledge and skill sets.


After all, we live in a free market society and you can charge whatever consumers want to tolerate.
CApainter is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to CApainter For This Useful Post:
Delta Painting (11-05-2019)
Old 11-05-2019, 12:35 PM   #27
Member
 
APPNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View APPNW's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiproJohn View Post
I have to disagree. There have been plenty of posts written in the past that provide a good framework for newbie painting contractors to get started.


Do some research, you will get some answers on here. That being said, I don't think there is a trade or business in existence whose more experienced/successful owners willingly provide "all the answers" to newcomers. This is still a competitive society. Yet, many do provide some of the answers. It's no different here.


You obviously are aware of regional differences and size of companies affecting pricing.
I have time to read through old posts like i have time to paint my own house.
I have found answers, but i had to go to a different site that isnt paint specific, which is just dumb because im painting not just contracting.
Im not looking for ALL the answers, and im not in competition with anyone here. We dont live in the same town, we dont have the same client base so that argument is moot.
If those that are so experienced arent willing to share, then why the hell are they here? So they can stroke each others egos about a job well done?

Whatever..... it is what it is
Delta Painting likes this.
APPNW is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:39 PM   #28
Member
 
APPNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View APPNW's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Everything is about money.... we cant escape that. Even the existance of this site..... see all those ads in between almost every post? $$
APPNW is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:53 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,347
Rewards Points: 530
Thanks: 21
Thanked 190 Times in 162 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Fiddy + Tree = Tree Fiddy

That's how you arrive at Tree Fiddy.
finishesbykevyn and Fman like this.
Lightningboy65 is online now  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:59 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,220
Rewards Points: 1,580
Thanks: 11,180
Thanked 9,580 Times in 5,440 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by APPNW View Post
Everything is about money.... we cant escape that. Even the existance of this site..... see all those ads in between almost every post? $$

It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out what your worth is as a painter, or painting contractor. For example:


1. If you consider yourself an experienced painter, find the going rate of an experienced painter in your area (Available online). Now add management level costs along with operating costs and whatever other premium you believe you deserve to that painter wage and you have a base cost.


2. Establish your true production rates and material costs, then factor in your base cost when estimating jobs.


I don't think it gets much easier that. What's really difficult, is selling and establishing a reputation and sustaining it.
Fman and SemiproJohn like this.
CApainter is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to CApainter For This Useful Post:
jennifertemple (11-05-2019)
Old 11-05-2019, 01:22 PM   #31
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 12
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
View juanvaldez's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Hey APPNW!
Where are you located? Where do you do most of your business?
Is that ok to ask?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
juanvaldez is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,990
Rewards Points: 320
Thanks: 577
Thanked 417 Times in 285 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by APPNW View Post
I have time to read through old posts like i have time to paint my own house.
If you are looking for threads about specific problems, materials or methods there is a search feature that I have, personally, used many times. You do not need to read "all" the posts.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is online now  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,990
Rewards Points: 320
Thanks: 577
Thanked 417 Times in 285 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by APPNW View Post
Everything is about money.... we cant escape that. Even the existance of this site..... see all those ads in between almost every post? $$
We are all happy to discuss money! How to make, ways to improve bottom lines, methods for estimating jobs, etc. What we are not inclined to is talking about our personal incomes,; such information serves no useful purpose and is nobodies business but our own.
CApainter likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is online now  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #34
Member
 
APPNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View APPNW's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Im in Yakima, WA. The "palm springs" of washington.

As far as the subject of competition:
I dont do bidding wars, not with anyone. If you know my price and you undercut me then good for you for getting the job. The people i want to work for would pick the middle bid anyhow, not the lowest bid.

I think the point here has been derailed. I am quite capable of establishing and running a lucrative business, regardless of my level of experience in any given aspect of said business.
What im saying is BS is our not being able to discuss money in relation to our business. Sure i can find whatever answers i need, but i would prefer to be able to ask my brothers and sisters of my own trade community. I have elders here in my town that i could ask all things, but thats just one voice. The more input one can get the more informed one can be.
Noone is going to gleen all they need to know from simply being told it. You have to live and learn. I understand this.
Being able to compare notes IMHO would only strengthen the community as a whole. Most industries have standards and base starting points and then ofcourse variables and having more insight into how everyone else has proceeded(price tags attatched) only helps you.
Delta Painting and Whiskey like this.
APPNW is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:03 PM   #35
Kev D.
 
finishesbykevyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newfoundland Can.
Posts: 1,207
Rewards Points: 265
Thanks: 260
Thanked 179 Times in 152 Posts
View finishesbykevyn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

As far as I'm concerned, nobody should be attempting to be self employed
AKA, go out on thier own until they have atleast an idea of what they should charge for basic services. These are things your suppose to be learning while on the job.
AKA. Know how long it takes to paint a door, a 10x10 room. etc. If you want to personally make $20/hr. take home, or pay your top guy $20-$25/hr. You better be charging at least double that to cover over head costs.
It's so regional, but there are a lot of books you could read on this as well. Knowing your market however I believe is the most important!


Quote:
Originally Posted by APPNW View Post
I have time to read through old posts like i have time to paint my own house.
I have found answers, but i had to go to a different site that isnt paint specific, which is just dumb because im painting not just contracting.
Im not looking for ALL the answers, and im not in competition with anyone here. We dont live in the same town, we dont have the same client base so that argument is moot.
If those that are so experienced arent willing to share, then why the hell are they here? So they can stroke each others egos about a job well done?

Whatever..... it is what it is
Fman and Lightningboy65 like this.
finishesbykevyn is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to finishesbykevyn For This Useful Post:
jennifertemple (11-05-2019)
Old 11-05-2019, 02:47 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,347
Rewards Points: 530
Thanks: 21
Thanked 190 Times in 162 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Well, no figures are being put on the table and it's already getting a bit contentious (just a bit, for the most part it has stayed civil). Now just imagine if actual figures were being bandied about.

Someone far wiser than myself decided to discourage discussing income and pricing on PT. Probably a good thing, IMO.
Fman and jennifertemple like this.

Last edited by Lightningboy65; 11-05-2019 at 04:20 PM..
Lightningboy65 is online now  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,220
Rewards Points: 1,580
Thanks: 11,180
Thanked 9,580 Times in 5,440 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Given the range of what is considered an acceptable finished product in the painting business, money amounts become less of a determining factor compared to the systems, processes, and business operations an owner elects to execute. One size does not fit all in this industry.
jennifertemple likes this.
CApainter is online now  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:02 PM   #38
Member
 
APPNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
View APPNW's Photo Album My Photos
Default

What people take home is their business.

Im interested in prices per square foot, linear foot prices on specific substrate. Factors changing prices like difficulty, and how much it changed the price and why.
Simple things like: i did this job with this paint in this area for this price per sq foot. And then proceed to give feedback if there is any; did it work, did you make as much as you thought you could, what would you change in the future if you had to do it again.

I could honestly care less what you all make in a year, again im personally not here to stroke or get my ego stroked. Really think the point is still being missed here.......
Whiskey likes this.
APPNW is offline  
Old 11-05-2019, 06:19 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,220
Rewards Points: 1,580
Thanks: 11,180
Thanked 9,580 Times in 5,440 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by APPNW View Post
What people take home is their business.

Im interested in prices per square foot, linear foot prices on specific substrate. Factors changing prices like difficulty, and how much it changed the price and why.


Simple things like: i did this job with this paint in this area for this price per sq foot. And then proceed to give feedback if there is any; did it work, did you make as much as you thought you could, what would you change in the future if you had to do it again.

I could honestly care less what you all make in a year, again im personally not here to stroke or get my ego stroked. Really think the point is still being missed here.......

Your price per square and linear feet, and given what type of substrate you are coating, will be influenced by a number of things. Including the following:
1. Speed of application
2. Material usage and choices
3. Protection of surrounding surfaces not receiving paint
4. Access
5. Distance to job site
6. Process (i.e. one, two, three coats with minimal or extensive prep)
7. Business overhead costs, including labor
8. Your required earnings
9. Seasonal whether conditions etc.


As far as process feed back regarding the success, or failure, of a particular project, you may want to ask, "How long did it take you to paint that, and what was your system?" "What material did you use". "How did you prep the surface?". "How did you access that area?"


With that feed back, you could plug your personal numbers right in and have a pretty good idea of what you're looking at. That is assuming you know what a competitive earning is for a painter/contractor in your area.

Last edited by CApainter; 11-05-2019 at 06:23 PM..
CApainter is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to CApainter For This Useful Post:
finishesbykevyn (11-08-2019)
Old 11-05-2019, 07:15 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 2,727
Rewards Points: 2,352
Thanks: 79
Thanked 272 Times in 244 Posts
View Brushman4's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightningboy65 View Post
Fiddy + Tree = Tree Fiddy

That's how you arrive at Tree Fiddy.
Wouldn't that be Fiddy Tree?
finishesbykevyn likes this.
Brushman4 is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com