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Old 11-19-2009, 10:54 PM   #1
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Default Why not to use eggshell on ceiling

I'm (was)thinking about bidding a smooth finish ceiling with windows all around. I have tried to talk the nice millionaires that it will be nothing but problems. Well, I can't, so I'm looking for a good article that might be enlighting to them to read after some other sad painter paints their ceiling, and they are looking for something to read while their lawyer is busy preparing a case against the sad painter. Now you might not this this no big deal, but just think a living room that is around , 1,500sf all open, all looking to the south with 5'x8' windows all around
So if you know of a article that talks about sheen problems on smooth ceiling, with lighting issues. Let me know
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:57 PM   #2
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I know you are just bored and solicited them to make their ceilings look shiny and new..

cashmere low luster is between a flat and eggshell. I don't know why they would want that on their ceiling though.. you know what? I would just have them okay gloss. That way you don't have to pussyfoot around the sheen issue.. all in feet first. Put up or shut up. Go big or stay home..
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:04 PM   #3
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Like most very rich people they know what is best.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:12 PM   #4
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Like most very rich people they know what is best.
Well then give em a gloss enamel ceiling and tell them your welcome....
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:17 PM   #5
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/\ Exactly!!
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:25 PM   #6
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Well,they want eggshell sheen, and thats all they will take. It is a level 4 finish and they will not do a level five so that sucks. With all the light coming in it's going to be hideous.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:36 PM   #7
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Well,they want eggshell sheen, and thats all they will take. It is a level 4 finish and they will not do a level five so that sucks. With all the light coming in it's going to be hideous.
Educate them, have them sign off, give them what they want. It can be as simple as that. The economy can dictate sensibility in these times.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:44 PM   #8
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Well,they want eggshell sheen, and thats all they will take. It is a level 4 finish and they will not do a level five so that sucks. With all the light coming in it's going to be hideous.
so contract should say that john.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:58 PM   #9
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Educate them, have them sign off, give them what they want. It can be as simple as that. The economy can dictate sensibility in these times.
I agree with this post, only thing I would add in is to make clear that you personally think it would look better the usual way and if they decide they do not like it you will gladly redo it for them for your normal rate.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:01 AM   #10
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The biggest issue for you is, what YOUR paintjob looks like.

If the eggshell reveals imperfections in the drywall/taping, that wont be your fault.

Explain that ahead of time, that it will reveal imperfections. Explain that you will need to make a note of that in the contract.

Also explain that with eggshell on a large ceiling, it is very difficult to keep a wet edge because no matter where you break it off, you wind up rolling into dry/tacky paint. Tell them you will have to write that in the contract that those areas may be visible.

Then I would spray and backroll the ceiling using two guys.

I would also make it really cold in there, and put some XIM in the paint to keep the paint from setting up so fast. Also, I would not use more than a 3/8 inch nap, so you aren't having to fuss around as much making sure the actual nap looks good.

Also, since you are using eggshell, the ceiling cant be touched up any way, so you might as well spray the last coat without backrolling, this will ensure that you don't have any dry spots from rollers hitting dry paint.

If you can't spray in there, I would get two guys both with 18 inch rollers, and start in the same place and both work one direction, possibly with one guy a few feet ahead of the other if you are bumping into each other's rollers.

If you can let your roller come to a stop without feathering it, and go back the other direction, that will be fastest/best, but if that causes a ridge that can be seen, you will have to feather it on each pass, and that should be one persons job, the person who is trailing behind a few feet should feather into the wet paint left by the other painter on every pass.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:05 AM   #11
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Wait did you say 1500 sqaure feet? What are the actual dimensions of the ceiling? How is the 1500 square feet laid out?
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:06 AM   #12
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Well,they want eggshell sheen, and thats all they will take. It is a level 4 finish and they will not do a level five so that sucks. With all the light coming in it's going to be hideous.

Why would a level4 be any differant than a level5???

Serious question
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:18 AM   #13
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It's not a square.there are a lot of walls in this room. this is a one floor pent house with 4400 sf, the main liv room/ dinning room kit are all open and together.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:30 AM   #14
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Why would a level4 be any differant than a level5???

Serious question
Maybe you can help me out on this one. I know that there is not very much difference between the level 4 and 5, but I do need all the help I can get on this one. Level 4 is suppose to be good enough for flat paint, and your suppose to use level 5 for any gloss, so what is the difference that you have seen in the two levels?
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:45 AM   #15
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Maybe you can help me out on this one. I know that there is not very much difference between the level 4 and 5, but I do need all the help I can get on this one. Level 4 is suppose to be good enough for flat paint, and your suppose to use level 5 for any gloss, so what is the difference that you have seen in the two levels?

I feel like I am a broken record on this one. Level4 is just level 4,,,, level5 was introduced to try to get drywall up to where it could be just sprayed and gone on with. It is an attempt to get drywall up to the level that anything put on it, will look and feel the same.

Look at it like this,,, if your guy sprays the wall, and gets a bunch of dust, by not sweeping or cover the floor, or whatever, and you come in the next day and FEEL it,,, you will have him sand the wall and do it over (I am assumeing this)

Level5 is an attempt to get the drywall to the point that you don't have to deal with the fact that drywall paper and drywall mud joints are two differant things,,, either way, the wall has to be sanded ,,,, which brings out the reality of level4 &5, if you roll the primer on (there it is) and then roll your first coat on then sand it before the finish coat, level5 is not needed AT ALL.

The reason (as a drywaller that does level5) that level5 has not caught on,, is ,,,,,, Well, the last level5 I did, the painter said, and I quote,,,,,,, this a level5, we don't have to touch the walls at all,,, just spray em and go on with it.


Ya know????

I am not a pro painter, (wish I was,,, but everyone ought to know, that you got to roll and sand,,,,,, am I wrong???? I am teachable!!!!)
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:57 AM   #16
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I think from a painter perspective, I never thought a Level 5 meant I could skip backrolling or sanding. To me, it means that the joints and stuff will all telegraph less through the finish since everything is buried in a drywall compound. No more difference in absorbency, no more texture difference between seams and the board, all issues that can affect the final appearance of a paint film. Even if the surface is backrolled and sanded.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:28 AM   #17
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I don't do a lot of new construction, but you are saying that you have to sand the primer after rolling it on, and then paint it?Why would you have to sand the primer? To me it looks like you would be adding sanding marks to the primer?
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Last edited by johnpaint; 11-20-2009 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:35 AM   #18
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It's not a square.there are a lot of walls in this room. this is a one floor pent house with 4400 sf, the main liv room/ dinning room kit are all open and together.
How high is the ceiling, and is it vaulted?

It is really hard to establish a strategy not knowing how the ceiling is laid out.

So are you talking about the one room where the 3 rooms are joined?

If so what shape is the ceiling? Rectangle, square? L shaped?

You have to give us more to go on.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:50 AM   #19
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Just tell them that any sort of sheen/gloss on a ceiling looks "trailer park"... they'll go with flat.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:19 AM   #20
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How high is the ceiling, and is it vaulted?

It is really hard to establish a strategy not knowing how the ceiling is laid out.

So are you talking about the one room where the 3 rooms are joined?

If so what shape is the ceiling? Rectangle, square? L shaped?

You have to give us more to go on.
I will see if I can upload a picture.
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