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Old 11-03-2007, 09:48 PM   #1
 
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Default Zar urethane on wood floors

Just curious if anyone has run into this issue with Zar, quick dry oil.
We did a customers mahogany floor a few months ago. Whole thing got prepped out with some huge buffer/sander a contractor rented.
We put about 5 coats of Zar sand n seal, sanding between every 2 coats. Then 2 coats of finish, sanding between each.
The finish looked like a glass of water, gorgeous. Zer recommends waiting 7 days before putting any furniture on the floor. We waited even longer to be sure, and the clients moved back in.

A few months later, problem: They put rugs on the floor. Under a few of the rugs they put these mats that go under rugs. For some reason, the finish had a reaction to the mat, and just those spots got imprinted with a similar design as the mats (tiny squares), even though there was no weight on the rugs.
So, the whole finish looks great, except where they had put those rugs.
My guess, something in the mat must have reacted with something in the urethane. I have not called Zar, because it wasn't my job, I just worked on it. However, I use zar a lot for this one particular contractor because he prefers it. I'm becoming more and more annoyed with it. I strain it, stir the hell out of it (no shaking, lol) bla bla bla. Some batched produce way more bubbles than others no matter what you do. Working with the flat urethane is tough, gotta add thinner or flattening agent can't rise to the surface (says zar techs). Dry time is not forgiving. We did quite a few huge floors and it was really tough to keep a wet edge. The contractor used an applicator while I cut in edges. Lambswool applicator (which leaks hairs as soon as you hit a tacky edge).
Anyway, even doing small bathrooms by myself, etc, I just don't know how much I care for it. Around here there are not many choices. Min wax maybe. Zar is the only product you can get enough of to do a large floor.
Made my eyes were burn some days, and others not. Wore a good mask.

Any experiences on Zar or opinions on something better perhaps?
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:44 AM   #2
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I am not experienced in floors but my first thought is the 5 coats of sand & seal with 2 finish coats...could there be a build up that is causing the impressions?
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:01 AM   #3
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Default Zar

I think due to high Fla. humidity the multi-coats of finish were dry but far from cured. The rubber pad kept the floor from breathing. A bare carpet which is more breathable would have been ok. I had the bubble syndrome with another brand and never did figure it out. I now use old masters or mckousky varnish. try 5 or 10% additive of penetrol for the lapping problem and run the wool muff through the washing machine before the final coat to remove the lint. Good Luck Mopaint
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopaint View Post
I think due to high Fla. humidity the multi-coats of finish were dry but far from cured. The rubber pad kept the floor from breathing. A bare carpet which is more breathable would have been ok. I had the bubble syndrome with another brand and never did figure it out. I now use old masters or mckousky varnish. try 5 or 10% additive of penetrol for the lapping problem and run the wool muff through the washing machine before the final coat to remove the lint. Good Luck Mopaint
I'm not certain of this but I don't think Penetrol is recommended for use in polyurethanes.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:30 PM   #5
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I'm not certain of this but I don't think Penetrol is recommended for use in polyurethanes.
The Pentetrol by Flood can says this: "Penetrol mixes with oil/alkyd base paints and enamels, varnish & ashphalt. It is not compatable with two-part chemical-resistant coatings, latex or other water-thinnable paints, chlorinated rubber ot coal tar coatings."

It has a bunch of uses too: restores brass, copper and chrome fittings, restores faded fiberglass, treat rusted metal, preparing bare wood...can be added to many wood primers, the more Penetrol added the deeper the penetration and the stronger the adhesion.
Interesting stuff.
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:08 PM   #6
 
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hmm, never thought of penetrol. It would be less evaporation than thinner, slowing dry time. But never heard of anyone using it it. Never hurts to try, I'll look into it.
Did run the applicator through the wash, lol. Still leaked hair.
Its only a little but some people are VERY picky.
I had to redo a large bathroom floor one time 5 times, because if the client saw one hair or spec of dust in the finish while sitting on the toilet, he would want it redone.
Apparently thats what he did to pass the time on the pot, study the floor sheen. Lucky me, lol.
Removing dust off absolutely everything is fine, but getting dust out of the air is impossible. Even if you let the dust settle, and turn off the air for a day or two, creep in, tack it off again, apply urethane, and creep out, there still seems to be dust. I even wore the dust suit thing taped at wrists and ankles so no body hair could fall, hair tyed up and covered, etc.
I mean, I was careful. It just is in the air. I was wondering if some people use air purifiers or what.
As far as bubbles, they seem to appear between the bristles of the brush, or applicator. Some batches just seem to be more bubble prone than others. Wonder if penetrol would worsen or better the bubble problem.
Cause the issue is the bubbles dry before they have a chance to pop.
The small bubbles look like dust specs.
Sometimes I'll get that gorgeous finish. I have paid hard attention to the differences between those and the other ones, but they all get done exactly the same with the same temp, etc. So the only thing I can come up with, is that the urethane is varied from batch to batch, or even can to can. Some are just bad. Am almost considering ordering from online next time so I can be sure they are fresh.

thx

Last edited by Bridgette; 11-04-2007 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #7
 
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Bridgette,
You might try Midwest Chemicals.com for aliphatic acrylic polyurethanes or
talk to Jen @ 800-270-0777.
They have moved nearer you.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:37 PM   #8
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I'm going to guess that the multiple coats were either applied too quickly between coats or applied too thick. It sounds like solvent is trapped in the coating.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:46 PM   #9
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Default It's Not The Zar

It's the pads, not the finish
Those cheap "rubber" things leach nasties
They are made crappily from recycled crap...the stuff they wouldn't/can't use for anything good
They'll make those marks on a baked on epoxy

Quote:
A few months later, problem: They put rugs on the floor. Under a few of the rugs they put these mats that go under rugs. For some reason, the finish had a reaction to the mat, and just those spots got imprinted with a similar design as the mats (tiny squares), even though there was no weight on the rugs.
So, the whole finish looks great, except where they had put those rugs.
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