Why VOC Ratings are Bullsh** - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Green Painting Practices

Like Tree24Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 372
Rewards Points: 256
Thanks: 131
Thanked 124 Times in 78 Posts
View BreatheEasyHP's Photo Album My Photos
Default Why VOC Ratings are Bullsh**

Your paint company is selling you "Low-VOC" paint and claiming that it's healthier. They're either ignorant or dishonest.

The VOC ratings for paint were created to address ozone depletion and smog; VOCs that affect health, but not the atmosphere, are EXEMPT from the calculation.

There are a couple of paints (like Mythic) that have tested for any irritants or carcinogens. But really, we have to learn to trust ourselves on this one - paint changes too fast, the research is too hard. I got a headache from Emerald, so did a bunch of you. SW claims it's a healthy paint, and that's dishonest and wrong.

If a paint irritates your respiratory tract, makes your eyes itch and sting, or gives you a headache, it's a toxic paint. If it doesn't, it's most likely healthier - our bodies have amazing communication abilities, informing us that something is toxic or carcinogenic far faster (and possibly more accurately) than a gaggle of scientists working in a lab funded under an egregious conflict of interest.

I wasn't able to find the full list of exempt solvents, but this website has a partial list. If you haven't believed this yet, this partial list includes acetone. Yeah - a "no-voc" paint might have acetone in it.

http://www.hercenter.org/facilitiesa...nds/paints.cfm

"An exempt solvent is a volatile organic compound that does not participate in an atmospheric photochemical reaction to form smog. It can be an organic solvent but it takes so long to react with nitrogen oxides (NOx) in the presence of sunlight that the EPA considers its reactivity to be negligible. Only a handful of exempt solvents are approved for use in paints and coatings and these include acetone, methyl acetate, PCBTF (Oxsol 100), and volatile methyl siloxanes."
illusionsgame and Holland like this.

Last edited by BreatheEasyHP; 01-24-2014 at 12:44 PM..
BreatheEasyHP is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to BreatheEasyHP For This Useful Post:
CRS (03-11-2015), George Z (01-24-2014), Gough (01-24-2014), PressurePros (01-24-2014), Rbriggs82 (01-27-2014), stelzerpaintinginc. (07-18-2014)

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-24-2014, 05:23 PM   #2
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 10,539
Rewards Points: 840
Thanks: 11,620
Thanked 10,458 Times in 5,722 Posts
View Gough's Photo Album My Photos
Default

When the first big push for lowering VOCs came along in the SCAQMD, the paint companies tried using exempt solvents, including some pretty nasty chlorinated hydrocarbons, like 1,1,1-trichloroethane, IIRC. They didn't cause smog, but they killed a few painters.
Gough is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gough For This Useful Post:
CRS (03-11-2015), DrakeB (02-07-2015), George Z (01-24-2014)
Old 01-24-2014, 06:26 PM   #3
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 18,026
Rewards Points: 9,504
Thanks: 11,449
Thanked 15,290 Times in 7,989 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Doesn't matter if I am using "Zero VOC" paint, I still induce as much ventilation into the area as possible and tell HOs that younger children, the elderly, anyone with respiratory issues, or anyone who is pregnant, should avoid the area for at least a few days if possible.
__________________
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."

Groucho Marx
RH is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to RH For This Useful Post:
benthepainter (01-24-2014), CRS (03-11-2015), DrakeB (02-07-2015), George Z (01-24-2014), Gough (01-24-2014), vermontpainter (01-24-2014)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-24-2014, 06:41 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
harmonicarocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bridgewater, VA
Posts: 249
Rewards Points: 204
Thanks: 116
Thanked 107 Times in 71 Posts
View harmonicarocks's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
Doesn't matter if I am using "Zero VOC" paint, I still induce as much ventilation into the area as possible and tell HOs that younger children, the elderly, anyone with respiratory issues, or anyone who is pregnant, should avoid the area for at least a few days if possible.
What a buzzkill!
__________________
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it." Collin Raye
harmonicarocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 06:45 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
PressurePros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,097
Rewards Points: 3,012
Thanks: 1,937
Thanked 5,800 Times in 2,487 Posts
View PressurePros's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Marketing rules and the people eat it up. Biodegradable is one use in my business and it means nothing. Everything is biodegradable including uranium if your willing to wait a few million years.
__________________
PressurePros is a Pressure Washing Company servicing Delaware and Montgomery Counties in PA

PressurePros is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to PressurePros For This Useful Post:
benthepainter (01-24-2014), CApainter (01-24-2014), CRS (03-11-2015), DrakeB (02-07-2015), George Z (11-30-2014), mukhoeb (01-25-2014), Rbriggs82 (01-27-2014)
Old 01-24-2014, 06:59 PM   #6
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 10,539
Rewards Points: 840
Thanks: 11,620
Thanked 10,458 Times in 5,722 Posts
View Gough's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PressurePros View Post
Marketing rules and the people eat it up. Biodegradable is one use in my business and it means nothing. Everything is biodegradable including uranium if your willing to wait a few million years.
Yeah, the paint cos are using the who VOC as a marketing gimmick, the SCAQMD and then the EPA made them make the change for the smog issue. They used the health angle to make users OK with the higher costs and poorer performance.

Strictly speaking, uranium isn't biodegradable, it's geodegradable. It's really only a problem for our descendants, so we're really just splitting heirs.
Worker Bee likes this.
Gough is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gough For This Useful Post:
DrakeB (02-07-2015)
Old 01-24-2014, 07:31 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
vermontpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,091
Thanked 5,929 Times in 3,434 Posts
View vermontpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I was an early adaptor and tester of the new generation of low and no's.

Don't trust your "headache" factor any more than you trust what the can says.

Yes, I realized early on that it certainly wasn't about painter health or even homeowner health. Sounds like RRP, hey?

Be smart. Use premium paints. The better quality the base, the less horse crap you are absorbing into yourself.

When you really think about the chemical reaction that takes place when you apply a liquid, and it dries and turns into something else in terms that are measured in minutes, yes, something is happening chemically.

That said, long term exposure is the key. There are 2-3 products that are my kryptonite. The new ones are better.

Let's keep moving in that direction.



__________________
Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vermontpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to vermontpainter For This Useful Post:
Gough (01-24-2014), PRC (09-11-2014)
Old 01-24-2014, 08:58 PM   #8
Almost Gone
 
TJ Paint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wind River Range
Posts: 10,727
Rewards Points: 516
Thanks: 4,949
Thanked 6,375 Times in 3,757 Posts
View TJ Paint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Theres no doubt it's getting better when you don't have to thin with xylene!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TJ Paint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 09:20 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,487
Rewards Points: 114
Thanks: 11,096
Thanked 9,492 Times in 5,364 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Painters and clients alike are more likely exposed to unwanted levels of radon then VOC's from paint. Heck, Ben and Gabe suck in more carcinogens from a weekend of BBQ'ing then they do from a year of painting.
CApainter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 09:22 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
vermontpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,091
Thanked 5,929 Times in 3,434 Posts
View vermontpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Painters and clients alike are more likely exposed to unwanted levels of radon then VOC's from paint. Heck, Ben and Gabe suck in more carcinogens from a weekend of BBQ'ing then they do from a year of painting.
That has always been my point.

Every single one of us is exposed to much more harmful things at the damn gas pump than spattering off a roller.

Enough already. And we wonder why paint keeps getting more expensive. Than gas even.



__________________
Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vermontpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to vermontpainter For This Useful Post:
CApainter (01-24-2014)
Old 01-24-2014, 09:32 PM   #11
Painting Contractor
 
George Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,565
Rewards Points: 1,888
Thanks: 2,901
Thanked 2,423 Times in 1,140 Posts
View George Z's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreatheEasyHP View Post
Your paint company is selling you "Low-VOC" paint and claiming that it's healthier. They're either ignorant or dishonest.

The VOC ratings for paint were created to address ozone depletion and smog; VOCs that affect health, but not the atmosphere, are EXEMPT from the calculation.

There are a couple of paints (like Mythic) that have tested for any irritants or carcinogens. But really, we have to learn to trust ourselves on this one - paint changes too fast, the research is too hard. I got a headache from Emerald, so did a bunch of you. SW claims it's a healthy paint, and that's dishonest and wrong.

If a paint irritates your respiratory tract, makes your eyes itch and sting, or gives you a headache, it's a toxic paint. If it doesn't, it's most likely healthier - our bodies have amazing communication abilities, informing us that something is toxic or carcinogenic far faster (and possibly more accurately) than a gaggle of scientists working in a lab funded under an egregious conflict of interest.

I wasn't able to find the full list of exempt solvents, but this website has a partial list. If you haven't believed this yet, this partial list includes acetone. Yeah - a "no-voc" paint might have acetone in it.

http://www.hercenter.org/facilitiesa...nds/paints.cfm

"An exempt solvent is a volatile organic compound that does not participate in an atmospheric photochemical reaction to form smog. It can be an organic solvent but it takes so long to react with nitrogen oxides (NOx) in the presence of sunlight that the EPA considers its reactivity to be negligible. Only a handful of exempt solvents are approved for use in paints and coatings and these include acetone, methyl acetate, PCBTF (Oxsol 100), and volatile methyl siloxanes."
There is nothing wrong with having regulations and concerns about atmospheric issues.
Zero VOC does not mean healthy, I never thought it did. It's just better than before.
Would you have any alternatives without the footprint being left by the distribution and logistics of smaller manufacturers?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
George Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 09:56 PM   #12
Old as dirt member
 
Schmidt & Co.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,565
Rewards Points: 688
Thanks: 7,004
Thanked 8,440 Times in 4,284 Posts
View Schmidt & Co.'s Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Z View Post
Zero VOC does not mean healthy, I never thought it did. It's just better than before.
Agreed. But there seems to be a disconnect with the average (non contractor) consumer. I constantly have to educate home owners that it's still paint and loaded with chemicals. Just because it's 0 VOC doesn't mean its safe to drink!
__________________
Paul
Schmidt & Co. is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Schmidt & Co. For This Useful Post:
CApainter (01-25-2014), George Z (11-30-2014), Paint Pro CA (06-18-2014)
Old 01-24-2014, 09:59 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
straight_lines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, N.C.
Posts: 7,822
Rewards Points: 1,574
Thanks: 5,686
Thanked 5,171 Times in 2,980 Posts
View straight_lines's Photo Album My Photos
Send a message via Yahoo to straight_lines
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmidt & Co. View Post
Agreed. But there seems to be a disconnect with the average (non contractor) consumer. I constantly have to educate home owners that it's still paint and loaded with chemicals. Just because it's 0 VOC doesn't mean its safe to drink!
You should let her know.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Primer makes everything better...
straight_lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 10:02 PM   #14
Old as dirt member
 
Schmidt & Co.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,565
Rewards Points: 688
Thanks: 7,004
Thanked 8,440 Times in 4,284 Posts
View Schmidt & Co.'s Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by straight_lines View Post
You should let her know.

Good Lord. Some people really need help.
__________________
Paul
Schmidt & Co. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Hines Painting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Rewards Points: 1,331
Thanks: 575
Thanked 1,168 Times in 635 Posts
View Hines Painting's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Aw man! You mean this liquified plastic we work with isn't good for us?

Crap.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hines Painting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 02:10 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hines Painting View Post
Aw man! You mean this liquified plastic we work with isn't good for us?

Crap.
The Latex of today is the Lead of tomorrow.
mukhoeb and Worker Bee like this.
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 03:16 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 372
Rewards Points: 256
Thanks: 131
Thanked 124 Times in 78 Posts
View BreatheEasyHP's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Sweet, I'm glad a there's a pretty broad consensus on the toxicity of paint...I kinda expected at least some "you're paranoid" or "you're overly-health conscious" type of response.

The only global environmental victory I've seen out of us humans is the reversal of ozone completion - we're at the cusp of the hole in ozone beginning to close, and that reversal is completely due to environmental policies on catalytic converter, paints, and mostly refrigerents. So I'm thankful for VOC ratings for that.

And I have some clients who want to be educated in that, and value being a small part of voting for that change with their dollars* by buying low VOC paints.

But "less ozone damaging" doesn't appeal to many people, and low-VOC so heavily advertised in that way it's portrayed is part of a purposeful industry-wide misinformation campaign. Shame.

I do think believe that there are certain acrylic paints with very low toxicity. The trouble is not having anyone to trust, and all the real information being flooded out by a singular focus on a bogus health claim.



*the way we spend our money is probably more politically powerful than chads on a ballot
DittonWilson likes this.
BreatheEasyHP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 02:09 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 97
Rewards Points: 89
Thanks: 10
Thanked 23 Times in 20 Posts
View Cam3sc's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Figured by your username you would have some sort of agenda...anyways LOW and ZERO VOC paint is healthier for you then non...and also it's made to last a life-time(so they say) and do you honestly thing something made to last a lifetime will ever be made from chemicals that might or might not be bad if exposed over long periods of time?? Lol i love Zero-VOC paint LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT

Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are emitted as gases from certain solids or liquids. VOCs include a variety of chemicals, some of which may have short- and long-term adverse health effects. Concentrations of many VOCs are consistently higher indoors (up to ten times higher) than outdoors. VOCs are emitted by a wide array of products numbering in the thousands. Examples include: paints and lacquers, paint strippers, cleaning supplies, pesticides, building materials and furnishings, office equipment such as copiers and printers, correction fluids and carbonless copy paper, graphics and craft materials including glues and adhesives, permanent markers, and photographic solutions.

Last edited by Cam3sc; 01-27-2014 at 02:26 PM..
Cam3sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 02:20 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 47
Rewards Points: 65
Thanks: 18
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
View Will22's Photo Album My Photos
Default

VOC content is dictated by the EPA, depending on the geographic location. Paint manufacturers have to comply with these regulations in order to sell their products in those locations. A few manufacturers label their products as non-toxic, but VOC content in paints is regarding the addition to the ozone layer, as noted here previously. Latex is not the new lead, as the latex content in waterborne paints is actually man-made (polymer, actually), not natural latex.

Last edited by Will22; 02-14-2014 at 02:28 PM..
Will22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2014, 06:43 PM   #20
D.O.G Founder
 
ajpace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Rewards Points: 25
Thanks: 4
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
View ajpace's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I've been talking about this for years... https://www.painttalk.com/f26/problem...c-0-voc-17631/

Zero VOC does not equal "Toxin-Free". Never has, never will.
__________________
The industry is going green - become the expert

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ajpace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Facebook Ratings Pete Martin the Painter Technology (websites, computers, etc..) 7 01-28-2014 04:40 PM
CU Paint Ratings: Here We Go Again! Amish Elecvtrician General Painting Discussion 2 02-15-2013 07:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com