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Old 01-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #1
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Default Hello to all

New to the forum, new to industrial painting, not new to painting.

I have 9 years experience in an auto body shop from part replacement to paint. The business closed Nov. 2011 and I landed a job in heavy industry with a company that produces high pressure steel cylinders. I'm talking anywhere from a 16" x 3' unit to 20" x 40'. This change from a spraybooth to an open area mill is a challenge to say the least.

Aside from switching from PPG products to Sherwin Williams, A good Iawata gun to Titan sprayers, I must also spray cold steel in an uncontrolled area. For instance, last Friday, Ambient temp was 18F and raining/snowing. 4 cylinders received SW B65W311. Spec was 3-4 mils. I am at a loss to get this coverage with out sags. Flash time is 3 to 5 hours and I don't have time to get a second coat applied in my shift time. I've used SW's recommended fast reducers, R-58 to R-104. No good.

At this point I'm thinking of going to a larger tip from a 21 to a 33 or even a 37 and speeding up the application. Other ideas have been to reduce with Acetone or MEK for faster flash times. Or do both. I tried Acetone with SW's DS679 primer with good results but I'm worried about messing up the chemistry if used with a catalyzed paint.

If there are any here with cold temp. experience, advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:40 PM   #2
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First off, welcome to PT!

I'm certainly not in a position to give advice concerning your situation but there are commercial/industrial painters here and some should be able to give your some ideas.

I am intrigued that in a facility that makes these units they don't see the benefits of providing you with a proper area (heated, ventilated, etc.) for you to do your job. Seems like it would be a smart investment that would improve both production rates and quality.

Dan
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #3
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Welcome HC, NEPS should be along any time now.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:01 PM   #4
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Welcome to the forum.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:15 PM   #5
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Thanks for the welcome. Some knowledge gained from my former occupation I'll be passing around if needed or wanted. That, of course, is what forums are all about. In the meantime I'll be asking ALOT of questions concerning this industrial stuff. Cause it just gets better and better..........

Wait till I ask about reducing SW's Zinc Clad 11 for ID spraying to a Mil. Spec with zero acceptable flaws with a 12 ft air wand held horizontally. Or using accelerators with Genesis 3.5 at 20F and NOT getting mottling in the flake.

Funniest part about this whole scenario is that management tells me, " That's how the other painter did it" or "We always do it this way". What they never mention is that the company had gone thru 2 painters last year, and this paint was never designed for these spray conditions. Have to embrace a challenge to keep your job here I guess.

The good news is: I won't be the first, or last, painter to throw away the book.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcrashster View Post
Thanks for the welcome. Some knowledge gained from my former occupation I'll be passing around if needed or wanted. That, of course, is what forums are all about. In the meantime I'll be asking ALOT of questions concerning this industrial stuff. Cause it just gets better and better..........

Wait till I ask about reducing SW's Zinc Clad 11 for ID spraying to a Mil. Spec with zero acceptable flaws with a 12 ft air wand held horizontally. Or using accelerators with Genesis 3.5 at 20F and NOT getting mottling in the flake.

Funniest part about this whole scenario is that management tells me, " That's how the other painter did it" or "We always do it this way". What they never mention is that the company had gone thru 2 painters last year, and this paint was never designed for these spray conditions. Have to embrace a challenge to keep your job here I guess.

The good news is: I won't be the first, or last, painter to throw away the book.
Heck, you may be able to write a new one.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:41 PM   #7
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Welcome
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #8
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Welcome, I know one thing is steel painting need to be followed by the specs, if not all hell will brake lose. You need to go to home depot and get a surface temp reader. If you are painting below temp specs you are compromising the coating. Talk to your SW rep that would be best. I would also give your client in writing that applying metal coatings below temps specs voids manufacture and your warranty. The liabilities you are taking on are huge.

I learned my lesson on this early, house/auto painter going industrial is a huge learning curve and you don't even know it.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:33 AM   #9
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Thanks again for the welcome.

As stated, the challenge here is to spray in conditions that the paints are not designed to be used in. Two main problems are reducing viscosity to a point where the paint is spray-able, and avoiding runs while meeting minimum mil specs. As we know, part A is going to affect part B.

I've tried up to 40% reductions with the SW B65W311 with R58. Sprays great from an airless Titan, but mils are thin, needing a second or third coat. Time-wise this is not acceptable. One option may be to use less reducer or go straight to Acetone and use a larger tip,[ in the 30 range]. I like the Acetone for it's shorter flash times, 2 hours compared to 6-8 hrs, but I'm worried about severely weakening the paint, perhaps to the point of film bond failure. When dealing with catalyzed paints, I hate to go off the recipe but may have to so the bosses get off my ass.

Tomorrow is Monday and I expect some comments about 4 cylinders sprayed with SW B65 W311 to 7 mils wet but probably dried to 2 mils and will need re-coated. I also had 2 bulkheads sprayed with SW Zinc Clad 4, reduced 20% with MEK. The company's pot sprayer would not pass this paint so I ended up using my little SUMMAX detail sprayer that has a 2.0 tip. 6 coats total that probably dried to half a mil. 3 mils is the spec.

I love a challenge but I need some other views or direct experience with these paints at very low temps.


PS Is there a way to move this thread to specialty painting?
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:06 PM   #10
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Applying an aliphatic polyurethane below 40 degrees is dangerous, and not recommended. Considering the product and labor cost, and the cost to profile and recoat a failure, your best advise is wait until you have better conditions. Perhaps the spring time would be prudent. You may get lucky playing chemist once in awhile, but sooner or later bad luck will rear its ugly head. Is the risk worth the reward? Most customers and manufacturers will leave you holding the bag on these practices and poor conditions...
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcrashster View Post
I love a challenge but I need some other views or direct experience with these paints at very low temps.
I think you have been fairly warned. I normally wont even show up on jobs painting steel in conditions below 50 degrees. If the temp is at 50, you can bet you azz the steel will be around 45 or lower. so If your painting at 20, i would bet your surface temp is around 15. this is simply unrealistic temps to apply these coatings, i suggest you show the specs to the bosses and put the liability on them, I would even go as far as getting a release of liability from them.

why do you need to compromise this? is the liabilities really worth it?
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:55 AM   #12
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sounds to me like he is an employee of this company and as such will not have to answer to the customer. However this company does not seem to care much about the quality if their products. good luck there is obviously a reason they go through two painters in a year.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:55 AM   #13
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and by the way welcome and good luck
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:55 PM   #14
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Hello. Welcome.
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