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Old 09-30-2013, 04:55 PM   #1
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Talking Here under false pretenses?

Hi everybody.

I'm not actually a contractor, I'm an illustrator / designer so I rely (partly) on paint to earn a living but it's as likely to be gouache as alkyds. Most of my work is "virtual" but when I excurse into wet 'n' sticky I like to know what's happening viz a viz the technology. Yup, I know the difference between a pigment and a dye and a carrier and a solvent and I'm more scared of polymer migration than lead oxide. For some reason I don't get invited to many parties ;P


Living in the U.K. a lot of the terminology might be different, i.e. asking for latex paint even in a paint-only store will, at best, meet with a total blank.

Legislation here is a real problem, not only re. paint but just about everything. It looks like ALL non-automotive paints here must soon be water-based, and that horrifies me. Manufacturers are being very coy about the whole business and won't answer questions such as "which of your varnish products can I thin?" Apparently they are all perfect and "don't need thinning," which is NOT what I asked.
Maybe here I'll learn that I'm wrong - or at least, what to ask for to get a good poly/BLO product

SO - I don't climb ladders, I'm as likely to use paint in a pen as a brush... There was a time when ~I would have said "airbrush" but that has largely gone the way of film-based photography, even for automotive application.

Sorry if I sound like a miserable git but you said "introduce yourself."

"Ladies and Gentlemen; here I am. _Hello_."
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #2
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Mr Heavy,

Love the intro, but I seriously wonder how well you can mesh with a forum that is meant for those who apply architectural coatings and the related fields.

I'm a paperhanger (or I guess "decorator" as you say in the UK), and you and I do have one medium in common - gouache

I use it to color the roll ends so the white substrate doesn't show. I like gouache over acrylic because it is so water soluble and doesn't make the roll stick together if I apply a little too heavily.

I'll say welcome, but it looks like your and the others here professional intersections are very limited.



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Old 09-30-2013, 05:46 PM   #3
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What kind of spackle do you use?
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:30 PM   #4
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He can give a whole new perspective and maybe even a little new advice in the nail hole thread
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch View Post
Mr Heavy,

Love the intro, but I seriously wonder how well you can mesh with a forum that is meant for those who apply architectural coatings and the related fields.

I'm a paperhanger (or I guess "decorator" as you say in the UK), and you and I do have one medium in common - gouache

I use it to color the roll ends so the white substrate doesn't show. I like gouache over acrylic because it is so water soluble and doesn't make the roll stick together if I apply a little too heavily.

I'll say welcome, but it looks like your and the others here professional intersections are very limited.
Well, Thanks for that. Meanwhile, I'll party with anyone till they turn nasty :-) Most people don't, of course

I may not be able to contribute much and I doubt I'll be a conventionally useful forum member, and after all this little flurry of activities I'll probably just lurk quietly in a corner and watch the knowledge float by, maybe snare a bit if it drifts close enough.

I do want to be able to access pictures that illustrate members' points, though. That's why I arrived here. I was looking for faux painting - woodgrain, particularly - information and everyone was going "Ahhhh!" over some pictures I couldn't see, and I had to be registered to do that...

I might even be able to apply some left-field logic occasionally when all the "correct" thinking is inside a box that I don't live in. It's just a matter of scale, really, isn't it? Most of the artists' forums have a particular slant on things that is not always appropriate and sometimes a cross-over would be a lifesaver.
A few years ago I met a particularly brilliant but decidedly insane English painter whose brushwork was almost "renaissance master." A stunning portraitist with possibly the most extensive private library of arcane and esoteric "wisdom" in Europe. He'd been commissioned to paint a mural which I believe cost many, many thousands of pounds and took many, many hundreds of hours. It was gorgeous, vibrant, lifelike. It was also painted with total disregard for the paint's interaction with the environment with no concern for efflorescence, U-V damage, differential laminar expansion, PH drop...
When I first saw it, it was about 30 years ago. Beautiful if odd.
Now, there's hardly any paint left intact. It's an awful, totally unrecoverable mess and the artist has long departed this world. Now some conceptual post-modernists might argue for the ephemeral quality of the work being more _art_ than the execution of it. I regard that as specious bull****. If it was worth the time and money, talent and vision that went into it, it was worth a better shot at posterity and if, at the planning stage, some dialogue had gone on between the commissioners, the artist and a paint technologist, we might be able to see the man's genius outliving him. I think it's tragic that it didn't. He did a series of other large-scale works on more durable/inert substrates but they have also not fared well

I'm sure that meshing with a forum that is meant for those who apply architectural coatings and the related fields would have made a huge difference in so many ways. Surely there's virtue in circulating knowledge outside of the guilds, sometimes?

any road up, I only stopped by to watch and listen.

Do you have problems with insects going for the gouache?
As it's essentially fructose bound I'd expect it to be quite attractive to ants and suchlike but I suspect that might be less of a problem in low humidity, if indeed it's a problem at all. See, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:12 PM   #6
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Welcome Mr heavy,
You may not have much to add in the application dept. but it sounds like you may have some input in the product dept.
what part of the UK are you from? I'm a fourth generation painter from England, my great GF worked in the trade back in UK when everything was brushed with huge wide pure bristle brushes and they had to scoop lead into barrels of paint and mix it by hand.
That may be my problem right there.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:25 PM   #7
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What the hell... even if you don't mesh, welcome to PT anyway!
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Heavy

Well, Thanks for that. Meanwhile, I'll party with anyone till they turn nasty :-) Most people don't, of course

I may not be able to contribute much and I doubt I'll be a conventionally useful forum member, and after all this little flurry of activities I'll probably just lurk quietly in a corner and watch the knowledge float by, maybe snare a bit if it drifts close enough.

I do want to be able to access pictures that illustrate members' points, though. That's why I arrived here. I was looking for faux painting - woodgrain, particularly - information and everyone was going "Ahhhh!" over some pictures I couldn't see, and I had to be registered to do that...

I might even be able to apply some left-field logic occasionally when all the "correct" thinking is inside a box that I don't live in. It's just a matter of scale, really, isn't it? Most of the artists' forums have a particular slant on things that is not always appropriate and sometimes a cross-over would be a lifesaver.
A few years ago I met a particularly brilliant but decidedly insane English painter whose brushwork was almost "renaissance master." A stunning portraitist with possibly the most extensive private library of arcane and esoteric "wisdom" in Europe. He'd been commissioned to paint a mural which I believe cost many, many thousands of pounds and took many, many hundreds of hours. It was gorgeous, vibrant, lifelike. It was also painted with total disregard for the paint's interaction with the environment with no concern for efflorescence, U-V damage, differential laminar expansion, PH drop...
When I first saw it, it was about 30 years ago. Beautiful if odd.
Now, there's hardly any paint left intact. It's an awful, totally unrecoverable mess and the artist has long departed this world. Now some conceptual post-modernists might argue for the ephemeral quality of the work being more _art_ than the execution of it. I regard that as specious bull****. If it was worth the time and money, talent and vision that went into it, it was worth a better shot at posterity and if, at the planning stage, some dialogue had gone on between the commissioners, the artist and a paint technologist, we might be able to see the man's genius outliving him. I think it's tragic that it didn't. He did a series of other large-scale works on more durable/inert substrates but they have also not fared well

I'm sure that meshing with a forum that is meant for those who apply architectural coatings and the related fields would have made a huge difference in so many ways. Surely there's virtue in circulating knowledge outside of the guilds, sometimes?

any road up, I only stopped by to watch and listen.

Do you have problems with insects going for the gouache?
As it's essentially fructose bound I'd expect it to be quite attractive to ants and suchlike but I suspect that might be less of a problem in low humidity, if indeed it's a problem at all. See, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Welcome.
Didn't understand half of that but would have to think that meshing with chaps in a related field is surely not a bad thing for anyone except Lord Barrington.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Heavy View Post

I'm not actually a contractor, I'm an illustrator / designer _."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Heavy View Post
Well, Thanks for that. Meanwhile, I'll party with anyone till they turn nasty :-) Most people don't, of course

I may not be able to contribute much...

You had me at "I'm an illustrator."
I'm terribly interested in that so if you elaborate I'd be very grateful.

WELCOME!! Cause I want to know more
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:40 PM   #10
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Mr Heavy, you sound down ;(

There is another forum that you might want to check out, full of artists and faux stuff. It's called Fauxforum. Many on that site can get quite technical,might be right up your alley. Also, you would probably love this blog by this extremely talented guy-Alan Carroll. It's called Surface Fragments. The guys here are nice, but I hear some of them don't like faux!!

Oh, and welcome!
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:56 PM   #11
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What kind of spackle do you use?
Ah.. that's one of those words used by descendents of the rebel colonists to confuse the tea-drinking tax-collecting redcoats. WE, in the staid backwaters of King George's England have only "filler."

"A large hole should be filled with grits.. "

I'm not actually sure if spackle is hard-setting or if it's a slow dryer, like window putty, so please forgive my ignorance and if this is a trick question, maybe I'm going to learn something here. Meanwhile, here's my shot at it:

If it's on structural stuff and going to be painted over, normally it'd be a cellulose filler unless it's going to take an anchor of some sort, in which case I'd probably use epoxy. Neither of these will take a stain, though, so - moving well out of my area of expertise into "general interest" territory - on decorative wood I personally would go for a pre-stained acrylic applied over shellac to stop the wood leaching the colour out though I sometime have used pre-stained cellulose. It's unpredictable. For durabllity maybe a self-coloured catalyzed polyester resin. I think you chaps call it "Bondo" when it's automotive grade?
Pinholes? sanding dust and PVA glue, but not for anything as big as a screw head.

Great word, spackle. Sounds like a breakfast cereal or a torture device.
"Please, sir, don't hit me with the spackle!" she cried, eyes wide and tearful.

Lord Fortesque poured himself a glass of spackle and sat down to watch the last race...

He was furious after finding young Henry sucking on a fag behind the pavilion and had ripped it out of the boys mouth and jumped up and down on it until it was as flat as the spackle they'd caught in the stream last summer.

The horse was too spirited, she thought, planting her feet in the unwithered stirrups and taking a firm grip on the spackle
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:00 PM   #12
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OMG, I think SR has some competition here.......
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Heavy View Post
Ah.. that's one of those words used by descendents of the rebel colonists to confuse the tea-drinking tax-collecting redcoats. WE, in the staid backwaters of King George's England have only "filler."

"A large hole should be filled with grits.. "

I'm not actually sure if spackle is hard-setting or if it's a slow dryer, like window putty, so please forgive my ignorance and if this is a trick question, maybe I'm going to learn something here. Meanwhile, here's my shot at it:

If it's on structural stuff and going to be painted over, normally it'd be a cellulose filler unless it's going to take an anchor of some sort, in which case I'd probably use epoxy. Neither of these will take a stain, though, so - moving well out of my area of expertise into "general interest" territory - on decorative wood I personally would go for a pre-stained acrylic applied over shellac to stop the wood leaching the colour out though I sometime have used pre-stained cellulose. It's unpredictable. For durabllity maybe a self-coloured catalyzed polyester resin. I think you chaps call it "Bondo" when it's automotive grade?
Pinholes? sanding dust and PVA glue, but not for anything as big as a screw head.

Great word, spackle. Sounds like a breakfast cereal or a torture device.
"Please, sir, don't hit me with the spackle!" she cried, eyes wide and tearful.

Lord Fortesque poured himself a glass of spackle and sat down to watch the last race...

He was furious after finding young Henry sucking on a fag behind the pavilion and had ripped it out of the boys mouth and jumped up and down on it until it was as flat as the spackle they'd caught in the stream last summer.

The horse was too spirited, she thought, planting her feet in the unwithered stirrups and taking a firm grip on the spackle
To clarify us yanks, A Fag in the UK is a cigarette, so the phrase "sucking on a fag" means "smoking a cigarette"
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:49 PM   #14
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This is some heavy stuff!
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:56 PM   #15
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Heavy,

I'd buy you a pint any day.



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Old 09-30-2013, 10:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by aroplate View Post
Welcome Mr heavy,
You may not have much to add in the application dept. but it sounds like you may have some input in the product dept.
what part of the UK are you from? I'm a fourth generation painter from England, my great GF worked in the trade back in UK when everything was brushed with huge wide pure bristle brushes and they had to scoop lead into barrels of paint and mix it by hand.
That may be my problem right there.
Originally from Sheffield, now living in Birmingham

My Great Grandfather - S. Holmes (seriously) - was also a painter for Sheffield Municipal something-or-other. I understand he was regarded as a bit odd.

I remember when I was a kid ALL houses were painted either that green - same as park benches and gas lamps - or
that maroon - same as some regions steam locomotives.
I suppose it depended on whether you had relatives working for the parks department or British Railways.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
You had me at "I'm an illustrator."
I'm terribly interested in that so if you elaborate I'd be very grateful.

WELCOME!! Cause I want to know more
This kind of thing?

http://postimg.org/gallery/1p7yp0r8/
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fauxlynn View Post
Mr Heavy, you sound down ;(

There is another forum that you might want to check out, full of artists and faux stuff. It's called Fauxforum. Many on that site can get quite technical,might be right up your alley. Also, you would probably love this blog by this extremely talented guy-Alan Carroll. It's called Surface Fragments. The guys here are nice, but I hear some of them don't like faux!!

Oh, and welcome!
Thanks on all that. See, it's probably been worth my joining just for those links.

I sound down?
Sorry, I wasn't intending to drag anyone down or cause worry. I can usually whinge and moan about "issues" from a detached perspective but I suppose it must sound as if I'm emotionally invested, otherwise why would I bother to drone on and on about something which, in the great scheme of things, is entirely inconsequential?

Ok,
<bares soul>
I can get depressed, but it's usually a reaction to something specific and frustrating. I think this is entirely normal and the natural consequence of actually considering the real world.. It only becomes a problem when it's no longer reactive but becomes a new baseline and defines someone as "depressive" rather than just depressed.
</bares soul>

Suicides by jumping into vat of varnish. Reported as "He had a terrible endů but a lovely finish."
*drum roll*
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:40 PM   #19
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Thank you, that's too cool.
I'm going to a Photoshop class tomorrow morning. I'm gonna figure out if this teacher is a match for me to take private lessons.
I turn mural art into wallpaper and am trying to figure out how to make designs myself.
Up to now I just do cheesy editing like in my intro for laughs, but I have potential if I had a mentor 'cause I hate to read manuals.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:35 AM   #20
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Thank you, that's too cool.
I'm going to a Photoshop class tomorrow morning. I'm gonna figure out if this teacher is a match for me to take private lessons.
I turn mural art into wallpaper and am trying to figure out how to make designs myself.
Up to now I just do cheesy editing like in my intro for laughs, but I have potential if I had a mentor 'cause I hate to read manuals.

What do you mean?
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