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Old 03-08-2010, 02:07 AM   #1
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Talking How to properly bid a job

Please help us with bidding
Hello everyone! I've just become a partner in a residential painting business with a friend of mine, we've been friends for 15 years and he's an excellent painter with 12 years experience but no business skills. I'm a residential hvac salesmen for a large company in Northern, ca and wanted to expand my business skills into the painting industry. I believe the platform that I've put together is going to be great! criminal free drug free clean cut well dressed employees gauranteed work in writing a real professional approach to the business. Except I'm having a hard time on how to price out jobs. Any advice? Any simple ways or books or training seminars recomended? We'd really appreciate as much help that can be given.
THANK YOU,
RICH WALTON
GOLD COUNTRY PAINTING EXPERTS
"WHERE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY MEETS AFFORDABILITY"
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:35 AM   #2
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$3.50 per square foot.

$0.35 per linear foot.

$3500 per exterior

$350 per room
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:50 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by richwalton View Post
Please help us with bidding
Hello everyone! I've just become a partner in a residential painting business with a friend of mine, we've been friends for 15 years and he's an excellent painter with 12 years experience but no business skills. I'm a residential hvac salesmen for a large company in Northern, ca and wanted to expand my business skills into the painting industry. I believe the platform that I've put together is going to be great! criminal free drug free clean cut well dressed employees gauranteed work in writing a real professional approach to the business. Except I'm having a hard time on how to price out jobs. Any advice? Any simple ways or books or training seminars recomended? We'd really appreciate as much help that can be given.
THANK YOU,
RICH WALTON
GOLD COUNTRY PAINTING EXPERTS
"WHERE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY MEETS AFFORDABILITY"
My advice is that to price jobs you must understand painting. You can't look at one and "guess" ...

So if you want to be in the painting business you should get yourself a brush and get to it....then in 5 years you will be able to price jobs properly.

I don't mean to be rude...but what does HVAC have to do with painting and how can you take HVAC sales skills and turn them into Painting estimating skills?
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:55 AM   #4
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My advice is that to price jobs you must understand painting. You can't look at one and "guess" ...

So if you want to be in the painting business you should get yourself a brush and get to it....then in 5 years you will be able to price jobs properly.

I don't mean to be rude...but what does HVAC have to do with painting and how can you take HVAC sales skills and turn them into Painting estimating skills?
I wish that the sales guy for the franchise I work for, who does the estimate was required to have a painting background.

So many botched estimates I don't know where to start, and it's simple stuff, and it's tough to hold anyone accountable for it from the bottom up, it makes hard working painters look bad. Prep is the toughest thing to estimate, no book or computer program can give you a square foot rate, you have to know from experience.

Anyone with no painting background should not get into selling paint jobs, it's a recipe for disaster, and it's a steep learning curve when you don't do the work. It's possible to do, but without a system that holds both the painter AND the estimator responsible for the mistakes the business just trudges along, and growth is more difficult than it ever should be.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:59 AM   #5
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......

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Old 03-08-2010, 03:04 AM   #6
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I haven't hit his quoted hours on a single job in about 6 months.

In Calgary I was consistently around 80% of the hours allowed for the job, and I got great customer reviews, impossible to make money out here for this franchise company. Difference was, Scott had a painting background and he did the estimates.

We were given a breakdown of the hours allowed for the job. This kept us both accountable for how we were spending our hours on a job, and him accountable for allowing enough hours on a specific area. We ALL learned from mistakes and were able to grow as a company.

I'd like to find that out here, or eventually become an independent contractor again, I just want to grow and be appreciated, instead of working for a company that has it all wrong.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:05 AM   #7
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Of course this has gone a little off topic of the original post, but gives the OP an idea of how hard it can be to quote a house without a painting background.

I'd be more than happy to continue this discussion in PM
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:12 AM   #8
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You must know how much you can produce.If this guy has been painting for 12 years he should know what he can produce (on average) in an hour or averaged out per hour over a given 8 hour day.Use that as your production base. It's really not rocket science but it's still an art. IMHO.Every company will have a different number,and every project is different. I love trying to explain that to those who call for a sqft.price over the phone or a ball park!!!! God I wish I knew who the numb nuts are that gave the consumer this idea....I swear I get 3 or 4 calls a week!!!!!!!
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:09 AM   #9
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You must know how much you can produce.If this guy has been painting for 12 years he should know what he can produce (on average) in an hour or averaged out per hour over a given 8 hour day.Use that as your production base. It's really not rocket science but it's still an art. IMHO.Every company will have a different number,and every project is different. I love trying to explain that to those who call for a sqft.price over the phone or a ball park!!!! God I wish I knew who the numb nuts are that gave the consumer this idea....I swear I get 3 or 4 calls a week!!!!!!!

It's from the guy with no integrity that offers $99 a room to get himself in the front door.


Hey OP, its seems you are getting off easy so far, guys must be in a good mood today.

Read this: https://www.painttalk.com/f2/new-memb...ntractor-2879/

Bottom line: no real world short cuts or silver bullets for you. Too many variables and unknowns. The best advice here so far is "know what YOU can do" and base your numbers on that, no one else can do that for you.

Eventually, suck it up, stick your neck out and go for it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:31 AM   #10
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I love trying to explain that to those who call for a sqft.price over the phone or a ball park!!!!
Get those phone calls now and then and my response is well how much do you pay for a bag of grocery's?

Pat
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:35 PM   #11
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Hey I know a guy here in Victoria that paint a Room for $99.00 and also ask you to go to his website so you can enter to a contest and win a free paint job, I don't know how this kind of marketing work for this guy. How is that even possible?? I know OFF TOPIC...

Estimating is more than just than a random number per square foot Richwalton, you have to know how your people work and what is capable of doing in some amount of time, you also have to add time for small mistakes at the end, trust me, nobody is perfect. ei.>You could quote a small bathroom at you regular rate per sq. foot, you aren't gonna make any money, do you? I don't mean to be rude but I know a lot of guys that have not experience painting and are the ones that usually charge to little because they have no clue about estimating, so then everybody else think we are insane for charging properly... Dude, learn how to paint first, at least so you know what painting is all about, then estimate... I've been painting for years and I still get frustrated with estimates, even if you have good skills with numbers you still need the base, PAINTING, PAINTING.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:25 PM   #12
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Hey I know a guy here in Victoria that paint a Room for $99.00 and also ask you to go to his website so you can enter to a contest and win a free paint job, I don't know how this kind of marketing work for this guy. How is that even possible?? I know OFF TOPIC...
Well Its a guy here in St. Louis that charge $79.00 a room, and get this, thats including the paint. WTF? I don't know what his strategy is, but I figure he probably been painting apartment his whole life and $79.00 a room ain't bad when he probably was getting $79.00 an apartment. lol
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:47 PM   #13
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:48 PM   #14
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http://www.markupandprofit.com/blog/?p=170
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:07 AM   #15
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Default I guess everybody bids differently

Thank you for everyones response obviously there is no set way of bidding. I've hired a paint salesman that has 8 years in the business painting and in selling and I understand our specific work pace. I just wanted something consistant I could use that is more specific for each home than a general rule. Right now we've been managing to pull $1,000 to $1,100 a day with a two man crew and staying busy, but we're a strong sales oriented company. Am I correct in saying my profit margin after all bills,marketing, wages and overhead is around 15-20%? Granted we have just started the business but seams well so far I just don't want to overbid my way out of jobs.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:11 AM   #16
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Sales is sales be professional build a relationship and trust. If people like and trust you they will buy from you. It's all percieved value 60% of people I talk to won't even get another bid. I don't sell the paint I sell the prep work and application and gaurantees. That's what hvac sales has to do with paint sales to answer your question.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:19 AM   #17
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I didn't understand the part where you said $1000 to $1100 with a 2 man crew? Are this numbers for painting or hvac? And you just started your business? You should send me some info of how to do it like you, I'm in Canada so I am not your competitor.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:43 AM   #18
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Damn - sounds like we need to take lessons from you. $1000 to $1100 for two man crew per day?

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Old 03-09-2010, 01:08 PM   #19
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I don't sell the paint I sell the prep work and application and gaurantees.
And that's exactly why you need to understand painting to be able to quote properly.

Check out the Business, Marketing and Sales forum. Pay special attention to the stickies. There's more info in there than you can imagine, and it'll at least give you a good start.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:00 AM   #20
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Well we just finished a 2400sq ft lap siding exterior in 3 days and it was $3500 cash job. Like I was saying earlier sales is sales. I've designed a structured presentation that the home owner sits down with us and we go through building rapport the whole time. Then I have 3 investment options The platinum package (high end most expensive) a gold package (most will go with this) and a builder bare bones package. I let the home owner choose where there budget lies. I gaurantee my work in writing, clean cut professionals, most people fall in love on the first visit and they won't even get other bids (for the few I've seen so far). Like I said it's working now but I didn't know if there was some majic book out there that says how much you should excactly bid so looks like I must doing ok. Thanks Rcon for the referral on where to go to get more information. Exterior in my opinion is a lot easier to bid than interior. Fyi there are guys around here that would have the same exterior that we just finished for $1500 but it is what is, it's all percieved value. Customers will pay for it if they feel like there getting there moneys worth. Aztec the $1000 a day pertained to painting not for hvac that's more like $10,000 a day. Not in Canada of course remember everything in CA cost a lot more!

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