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Old 09-06-2013, 08:56 PM   #41
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Hi Ceilpro,
what is your main market, GC or direct commercial clients?
How do you advertise to a niche like that for commercial client? We do a lot of commercial but I get asked for this type of work only once a year, and they always say my quote are too expansive. I think I bid at around the same price it cost to replace (tile only is around 0,50$/sf, not the railling).
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by CeilPro.com View Post
Funny stuff, you should write for Conan. However, you've got it all wrong. As a matter of fact, we were spec'd on countless jobs over the years, specifically because so many painters BUTCHERED ceilings when the GC tried to hire one guy to do it all. Typically, they thought it was like spraying walls or open deck, only to find out they really didn't have a clue how to do it right. Haven't you ever seen one painter do all the walls, etc. and another company come in to do the electrostatic? Yeah, it's kind of like that...

You simply can't get really good (and efficient) doing something a few times a year. You get good at it by doing it over and over again. Odds are that your "good" and mine are two different things. If your content to reinvent the wheel on the fly, have it your way. That's exactly what my training is designed to prevent.
Thanks, I was considering writing for Conan, but when he was hired for TBS, I was no longer interested.

In all seriousness.. I believe you have a good market for this.... That is if your company specializes in it. I do not think you will find a lot of guys wanting to purchase the training though. Painters are a stubborn breed, and I imagine painters who always have their necks tilted backwards are no different.

I would personally rather just enjoy my retirement at 51. Probably start another business that I have always wanted to open just for fun.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:55 PM   #43
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Thanks, I was considering writing for Conan, but when he was hired for TBS, I was no longer interested.

In all seriousness.. I believe you have a good market for this.... That is if your company specializes in it. I do not think you will find a lot of guys wanting to purchase the training though. Painters are a stubborn breed, and I imagine painters who always have their necks tilted backwards are no different.

I would personally rather just enjoy my retirement at 51. Probably start another business that I have always wanted to open just for fun.
Strange, I've found quite a few people interested across the country. I realize it isn't for everyone, it does require both an open mind and a desire to expand one's business. As you've noted, "painters are a stubborn breed" - finally, we agree on something! Fortunately, I don't need to train 100 companies a year, one a month and I'm happy. Pays the property taxes, health insurance, a bit more, and I'm a happy camper...
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:08 PM   #44
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Hi Ceilpro,
what is your main market, GC or direct commercial clients?
How do you advertise to a niche like that for commercial client? We do a lot of commercial but I get asked for this type of work only once a year, and they always say my quote are too expansive. I think I bid at around the same price it cost to replace (tile only is around 0,50$/sf, not the railling).
So far, it's been all commercial painters. As you know, not all that many GC's do their own painting (at least from my experience), so that market is limited.

Regarding not getting too many requests for it, that's absolutely true. People aren't knocking doors down to have this type of work done, that's why it's critical to market the service and let people know that there is an alternative to replacing ceilings. It's amazing how few property managers, facilities managers and architects are completely unfamiliar with the process. Yet, the most common thing I heard from people I'd been chasing for 10 years was, "I wish I had tried this years ago!". They don't realize how good the ceiling is going to look, they think it's going to have that "painted" look, that usually comes from seeing a rolled ceilings (with the fissures on the face of the tile all filled in, tiles glued to the grids, etc.).

The big advantage that you as a commercial painter have is that you're already a trusted contractor with property managers, facilities people, etc.; the next time you look at a conventional job, look up at the drop ceilings. If the tell-tale signs are there (salt & pepper tiles, dirt accumulated around the diffusers, etc.), ask them what they're planning to do about their ceilings. They may not look bad now, but once the walls and floors are done, they'll stick out like a sore thumb. Then, tell them you can offer them a cost-effective alternative to replacing them, and maybe offer to do a no-cost sample to convince them. Once they see the sample (providing it's done correctly), they'll be sold on it.

A huge trend nowadays (at least in the northeast, especially in retail, supermarkets and restaurant) is doing off-white colors, to get away from the "office" look of the drop ceilings. Off-white colors are tricky, as certain tiles don't coat well with color changes, and other require as many as 4 light coats to prevent streaking (depending on how heavily textured the tiles are).

Anyway, I'm wandering a bit. Regarding your comments about cost, when someone tells you they can buy tile for $.50/sf (that's a cheap tile, bottom of the barrel...), ask them if they price a new brick walkway out by estimating strictly the cost of the brick, without labor, etc. factored in. Obviously, no is the answer, and the same applies with ceilings. By the time the costs are added up (demo, disposal, waste for edge cuts - generally about 15% - labor costs to install the new tiles, costs to clean or respray the grids), you're up to AT LEAST $1.25/sf. Generally, we averaged about $.55/sf for refinishing, and made really good money charging that. As I've harped on earlier, if you're EFFICIENT, you can make really good money charging something in that neighborhood. Costs obviously vary quite a bit, depending on the area of the country you live in, and whether you're union vs. open shop.

For some jobs, we charged around $.90/sf where the cost to replace (with a nicer tile) was $2.50-3.00/sf. Guess what? Customers loved us for saving them a boatload of money, while giving them the custom color they wanted.

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Old 09-07-2013, 01:16 AM   #45
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I have done many drop ceilings in businesses overnight.Haven't ever had a problem yet but if I do I will reserve my seat at the next "training seminar"
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:25 AM   #46
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You don't know the first thing about this line of work, that much is obvious. Go out and try refinishing 10,000 s/f of acoustical ceilings in an occupied area in one overnight with just 5 guys, then you can tell me how extensive your knowledge in this field is. Oh, and do it WITHOUT any callbacks, not a streak on the ceiling, no fallout on the customer's merchandise, and with the store ready to open for business. Then I'll be impressed. Until then, be humble enough to admit that sometimes there's more to a specialty than a simpleminded pinhead like you might think.

If it were so easy, why did so many people get in and then out of the business during the years I practiced this? We grew and grew, and refinished ONLY drop ceilings for hundreds of the largest companies in the northeast. I don't suppose you've even taken a peek at my website to satisfy your vast intellectual curiosity, have you? Don't worry, you won't benefit me in the least by viewing it, but you may have second thoughts about what you've written.

And one last thing - you mentioned the 'schmucks' who buy my 'product'...for the record, I don't even sell a product. I offer a training regimen for commercial painting company owners and their employees. It takes 3-4 days to complete, and I can guarantee you that you don't know 95% of the stuff I teach.

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I was under the assumption that name calling was not permitted here
I think " simpleminded pinhead" just might qualify
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:31 AM   #47
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Here's a quick shot from a job that was about 30,000 s/f. 4 nights to complete with 5 men, gross profit = $13,000.


Sooooooooo,, tens of millions divided by 30,000 = ?
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:24 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by CeilPro.com
I have plenty of hobbies, thanks, and plenty of time to enjoy them thanks to a very lucrative line of work I practiced during my career. My postings here are simply intended to share my experience with others through my web site, to help them enhance their businesses (no, I don't charge an arm and a leg for my services...). I've done numerous training sessions, and every customer I've had has continued to thank me for turning them on to an add-on service that's made them a whole boatload of money.

I'm amazed at the negativity pouring in here; perhaps it reflects a certain closedmindedness? Not sure, but at any rate, I guess if someone is that offended at my post, there are plenty of others to read. I don't see what purpose slinging mud serves; I haven't insulted anyone here, so why go negative?

I don't care if anyone on this site actually hires me for my training regimen, but at least open your minds to new add-ons that can expand your offerings to your customers. If you already have existing commercial accounts, why not offer them something else? You've already got your foot in the door; existing customers are the easiest and best ones to sell to.
Can you define boatload?
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:31 AM   #49
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Can you define boatload?
Take a boat.... Then load it up.... Boatload
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:56 PM   #50
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Take a boat.... Then load it up.... Boatload

rowboat or aircraft carrier?
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:49 PM   #51
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rowboat or aircraft carrier?
I'll take either.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #52
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A row boat full of money would buy a boat like this.Maybe, if it was a big rowboat and it was all hundreds.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:58 AM   #53
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I guess if the rowboat was "tens of millions of s/f ", then you could fill it with ones and still buy that



and another for the wife
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:42 PM   #54
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Can you define boatload?
Can you look into going back to school to finally get your GED?
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #55
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Seeing that you are here to sell something, and this niche market of yours is so highly profitable, then I'm guessing you will have the extra cash laying around to buy an ad if you want to push your services here further.

Thank you, and have a nice day.
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