Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum

Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum (https://www.painttalk.com/)
-   New Member Introductions (https://www.painttalk.com/f3/)
-   -   Intro (https://www.painttalk.com/f3/intro-69265/)

CharlieHustle14 08-30-2016 09:01 AM

Intro
 
Good morning everyone, am a newbie to the forum and the trade. I've been lurking for a few days and have become addicted to reading the post and learning so much new information. I have some questions, being that am a DIYer that's looking to go Pro. I have plenty of time to ask questions, right now am going to just continue to read and educate myself about this industry.

AngieM 08-31-2016 08:06 AM

Welcome!

Joe67 08-31-2016 09:11 AM

Welcome to the forum!

You didn't really ask for advice (yet, I guess), but if you are looking to move from DIY to pro I might suggest looking around for a good painting company in your area and taking a full time job there for a good, long while. There is a lot that can be learned by reading and doing on your own and such. But a huge amount of what it takes relies on "tacit knowledge" - stuff that can't really be explained but has to be learned through experience that is guided by someone who already is experienced. (Master/apprentice model). It might not be what you want to do right now, but IMHO it will take you farther faster to get with an experienced paint crew.

Best of luck in getting things rolling however you decide.

CApainter 08-31-2016 11:14 AM

Although I agree that training from the bottom up is a time honored good idea, I don't think that it can withstand the speed at which our entrepreneurial society runs these days. Particularly, when the young entrepreneur is planning on retiring with his or her millions by the time they're forty.

The beauty of the painting business lies within the relatively easy start up, minimal experience, and the certainty that many owners don't concern themselves with paint quality while facing a multitude of other pursuits and interests. In other words, no one has time to really care any longer.

Go for it and have fun! And happy early retirement!

Epoxy Pro 08-31-2016 05:37 PM

Welcome to the group.

If you have some experience you may be ok to start out, if not or your unsure I would recommend looking for a painter to learn from. I tell my guys all the time, you never stop learning in this trade, if you think you know it all you have another thing coming.

Good luck. Read as much as you can on here, tons of great info.

If you do start on you own I would recommend the following.

Company name
Liability Insurance
Ladders & tools
business cards/facebook business page
flyers (hang up where ever you can in other businesses)
accountant/business bank account

slinger58 08-31-2016 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CApainter (Post 1266570)
Although I agree that training from the bottom up is a time honored good idea, I don't think that it can withstand the speed at which our entrepreneurial society runs these days. Particularly, when the young entrepreneur is planning on retiring with his or her millions by the time they're forty.

The beauty of the painting business lies within the relatively easy start up, minimal experience, and the certainty that many owners don't concern themselves with paint quality while facing a multitude of other pursuits and interests. In other words, no one has time to really care any longer.

Go for it and have fun! And happy early retirement!

Ain't you on a roll today?!:thumbsup:

Joe67 08-31-2016 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CApainter (Post 1266570)
Although I agree that training from the bottom up is a time honored good idea, I don't think that it can withstand the speed at which our entrepreneurial society runs these days. Particularly, when the young entrepreneur is planning on retiring with his or her millions by the time they're forty.

The beauty of the painting business lies within the relatively easy start up, minimal experience, and the certainty that many owners don't concern themselves with paint quality while facing a multitude of other pursuits and interests. In other words, no one has time to really care any longer.

Go for it and have fun! And happy early retirement!

I can't even tell if that whole post was sarcastic. Assuming its not, a person's intro thread probably isn't a place for any kind of debate about it, but first, its not the software business or something. Most stuff about knowing what you're doing doesn't really change much, if at all. The "speed" of the "entrepreneurial society" is largely irrelevant on most counts.

Second, I find that most of our clients do really really care, as does my GC who thanks me regularly because he finally has someone around who actually knows what they are doing. Trust me, during the "overlap" time between when I started and when he had his "DIY" general construction guys doing it, I had to go behind a lot of their "work." Holy crap. The difference in quality is quite noticeable and very important to how an entire job turns out.

Finally, I'm also not inclined to encourage those who will continue to give painters a bad rap. It really is a skilled craft-person's profession, not some "chore" for people willing to slop messy stuff around. Maybe I should have just named myself painting snob.

The part that I would reiterate in the affirmative is that one part of the beauty of the painting business is minimal start-up cost.

vividpainting 08-31-2016 10:13 PM

Welcome!

CApainter 09-01-2016 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe67 (Post 1266498)
Welcome to the forum!

You didn't really ask for advice (yet, I guess), but if you are looking to move from DIY to pro I might suggest looking around for a good painting company in your area and taking a full time job there for a good, long while. There is a lot that can be learned by reading and doing on your own and such. But a huge amount of what it takes relies on "tacit knowledge" - stuff that can't really be explained but has to be learned through experience that is guided by someone who already is experienced. (Master/apprentice model). It might not be what you want to do right now, but IMHO it will take you farther faster to get with an experienced paint crew.

Best of luck in getting things rolling however you decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe67 (Post 1266890)
I can't even tell if that whole post was sarcastic. Assuming its not, a person's intro thread probably isn't a place for any kind of debate about it, but first, its not the software business or something. Most stuff about knowing what you're doing doesn't really change much, if at all. The "speed" of the "entrepreneurial society" is largely irrelevant on most counts.

Second, I find that most of our clients do really really care, as does my GC who thanks me regularly because he finally has someone around who actually knows what they are doing. Trust me, during the "overlap" time between when I started and when he had his "DIY" general construction guys doing it, I had to go behind a lot of their "work." Holy crap. The difference in quality is quite noticeable and very important to how an entire job turns out.

Finally, I'm also not inclined to encourage those who will continue to give painters a bad rap. It really is a skilled craft-person's profession, not some "chore" for people willing to slop messy stuff around. Maybe I should have just named myself painting snob.

The part that I would reiterate in the affirmative is that one part of the beauty of the painting business is minimal start-up cost.

Joe,

Your post suggested the OP could not begin a painting business without having worked for another painter. I simply disagree. Particularly, since many painting contractors have no measurable means to qualify their experience other than to possess a contractors license, [which deals primarily with contract and labor laws rather than trade specific knowledge], the number of houses they've painted, and a web site.

It certainly can't be denied that the dynamics of entrepreneurialism thrives on speed. And given the advent of the internet, social media, and the tools offered to manage online, or online supported businesses, its quite obvious that self employment is steadfastly encouraged in this millennial climate.

Again, who has time for the brick and mortar model of learning when retirement is forecasted at forty for many in this upwardly mobile demographic.

So at the end of the day, a brush, a bucket and a great smile is all you need to get started in this trade.

Now, in terms of sustainability, that's a whole other discussion.

slinger58 09-01-2016 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CApainter (Post 1267042)
Joe,

Your post suggested the OP could not begin a painting business without having worked for another painter. I simply disagree. Particularly, since many painting contractors have no measurable means to qualify their experience other than to possess a contractors license, [which deals primarily with contract and labor laws rather than trade specific knowledge], the number of houses they've painted, and a web site.

It certainly can't be denied that the dynamics of entrepreneurialism thrives on speed. And given the advent of the internet, social media, and the tools offered to manage online, or online supported businesses, its quite obvious that self employment is steadfastly encouraged in this millennial climate.

Again, who has time for the brick and mortar model of learning when retirement is forecasted at forty for many in this upwardly mobile demographic.

So at the end of the day, a brush, a bucket and a great smile is all you need to get started in this trade.

Now, in terms of sustainability, that's a whole other discussion.

You are absolutely outdoing yourself in this thread, CA. We'll be veering off into a discussion on proper dental care soon. "Why daily flossing is important in building a good clientele." Lol

AngieM 09-01-2016 05:31 PM

I have worked for many painters until I started getting consistent calls. I can tell you with certainty, the painters who just got started with a paint brush and name are at a serious disadvantage.

#1 They suffer from close minded syndrome because they've been disillusioned by their satisfied customers.
#2 Because they've "been doing this for X amount of years" their ego is too big to admit that perhaps they have more to learn.

Unless you enjoy reinventing the wheel , learn from the pros' successes and failures before you take the leap. 😀

CApainter 09-01-2016 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinger58 (Post 1267122)
You are absolutely outdoing yourself in this thread, CA. We'll be veering off into a discussion on proper dental care soon. "Why daily flossing is important in building a good clientele." Lol

What would you expect from someone who never ran a business. Hee Hee.

I just think painters take this trade too seriously in terms of required skill sets. Now on the other hand, management skills are far more important in terms of sustainability as a business owner. And you won't necessarily get that experience by working with any run of the mill contractor, in my less than qualified opinion.

Cheers! My four day weekend begins in T minus seventeen minutes.

007 Dave 09-01-2016 09:02 PM

Welcome Charlie. Working for yourself is rewarding and at times frustrating. I too have learn from this site.After painting for 30 years now, I read stuff on here that I think why haven't I heard of that before. Some books I have read and always recommend them to people who thinking they want to start their own company are Two books written by Jon Acuff. First one is "Start". The other one is "Quitter". Good luck my friend

Joe67 09-01-2016 10:47 PM

Well, unfortunately poor CharlieHustle's intro post has been partly hijacked. I'll just try to make a quick clarification instead of making it drag on but we could always have a different thread if anyone wanted.
@CApainter, you may just have read more into what I said than I intended. I didn't mean to imply any "can't" or "shouldn't." But the difference between DIY and pro is so large that its even built into the structure of this forum. This one's for pros. And then there's the DIY forum. The fact is that there is a lot to know. Pros easily end up taking for granted how much they do know. So I don't agree that painters take it too seriously in terms of required skills AND knowledge. I've painted with a lot of inexperienced people over the years. (I was one of those once). The differences are stark.

So let's say that CharlieHustle wants to have the radically successful painting business and retire a millionaire at 40. IMHO, if he goes to work with some pros for a year, and then goes entrepreneurial he'll stand a much better chance of doing that. If he doesn't, he'll stand a much greater chance of a) not succeeding at all and/or b) taking until he's 40 to just get his bearings. All I was telling him is that I think that he can go farther faster by learning on the job for a while with experienced people.

With that clarification, I'm also totally ok if we agree to disagree. I was just looking to help a guy out based on MY own experience. I don't actually need to go to bed tonight feeling like I'm the one in the Truth. Best.

CApainter 09-02-2016 09:15 AM

I agree that the best practice to develop and qualify one's self in any vocation, is to start from the bottom up with the best possible training available. Union apprenticeships have established themselves as one of the most capable and recognized organizations to facilitate trade training in this manner. Yet, there are a lot of fantastic painters out there, running their own businesses, who haven't spent one day in class out of a four year apprentice program.

I suppose I see PT more as a professional business owner's forum rather than a how to paint site. And since I don't know the educational background, or experience, in terms of the business acumen members may possess, I have to assume they are all capable of being self employed. Particularly, given that possessing a healthy business aptitude will likely do more towards plotting a course for success and early retirement, than cutting a straight line, or cleaning brushes ever could in my opinion.

Frankly, I believe working at a paint store could potentially provide more value than humping for a contractor, in terms of gaining a broader understanding of paint products and their applications. PACman comes to mind.

Joe67 09-02-2016 09:42 AM

Indeed, it is complicated, and it is right to add emphasis, not on "how to paint" but on running a business - which is harder. And it's true that running with a painting crew won't help with a lot of things on the business / sustainability end - depending on how you play it. I also didn't have anything in mind, by the way, regarding any kind of formal training program. I wouldn't even know where to look for one. Wherever you go, people are looking for painters. I was just thinking of getting onto a crew rather than any kind of "school."
@CharlieHustle14, hopefully this conversation, though a bit of a hijack of your Intro is helpful to you in terms of things to think about. As I said in my initial post, I wish you well in getting rolling however you decide to do it.

CharlieHustle14 09-03-2016 08:38 AM

Thanks for the welcome, didn't mind the hijacking, I received so much info and was also entertained. I do have a question, this will be a long post. I am currently in the Law Enforcement/Security field. I've worked in this field for 12 years. Right now am wanting to do something else. I decided on Painting because I have enjoyed it doing it DYI for myself, family, and friends. I also like the fact that you can start your own business once your skilled and confident to do so. Right now I want to learn all I can about painting the correct way, while also learning about the business end. I've always dreamed owning my own business every since I started working at 14 yrs old. My question is where do I start to aquire the knowledge and skills. Am in the metro Atlanta area and I 've thought about the apprenticeship program here. Talking to a few people in the trade and reading some post, some have suggested that I get on with a painting contractor. Well the problem is they all want you to have experience and be a bad ass painter and right now am not that. What do you guys and gals lol suggest. Really want to do this

journeymanPainter 09-03-2016 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieHustle14 (Post 1267905)
Thanks for the welcome, didn't mind the hijacking, I received so much info and was also entertained. I do have a question, this will be a long post. I am currently in the Law Enforcement/Security field. I've worked in this field for 12 years. Right now am wanting to do something else. I decided on Painting because I have enjoyed it doing it DYI for myself, family, and friends. I also like the fact that you can start your own business once your skilled and confident to do so. Right now I want to learn all I can about painting the correct way, while also learning about the business end. I've always dreamed owning my own business every since I started working at 14 yrs old. My question is where do I start to aquire the knowledge and skills. Am in the metro Atlanta area and I 've thought about the apprenticeship program here. Talking to a few people in the trade and reading some post, some have suggested that I get on with a painting contractor. Well the problem is they all want you to have experience and be a bad ass painter and right now am not that. What do you guys and gals lol suggest. Really want to do this

Call these guys http://iupatdc77.org/
They'll set you up as a first year apprentice. The pay will suck for the first bit, but they'll set you up with a company, etc. Just don't talk to anyone about wanting to do your own thing.

CApainter 09-03-2016 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieHustle14 (Post 1267905)
Thanks for the welcome, didn't mind the hijacking, I received so much info and was also entertained. I do have a question, this will be a long post. I am currently in the Law Enforcement/Security field. I've worked in this field for 12 years. Right now am wanting to do something else. I decided on Painting because I have enjoyed it doing it DYI for myself, family, and friends. I also like the fact that you can start your own business once your skilled and confident to do so. Right now I want to learn all I can about painting the correct way, while also learning about the business end. I've always dreamed owning my own business every since I started working at 14 yrs old. My question is where do I start to aquire the knowledge and skills. Am in the metro Atlanta area and I 've thought about the apprenticeship program here. Talking to a few people in the trade and reading some post, some have suggested that I get on with a painting contractor. Well the problem is they all want you to have experience and be a bad ass painter and right now am not that. What do you guys and gals lol suggest. Really want to do this

The Union apprenticeship program would be a fantastic place to start building a proper foundation for a career in painting. However, entry level positions are designed for younger adults who can afford a reduced income in hopes of earning a higher wage after four or five years.

I'm guessing you're between thirty and thirty seven years of age. So, depending on your domestic and financial situation, you may not have the latitude to commit to such a program. And given that many, if not most, painting contractors are ill equipped to offer an accredited training curriculum, working with a willing self employed painter, friend, or find your own side work, might be the quickest way to learn while not compromising your financial situation.

Keep in mind, product and equipment information for painting, is readily available from your supplier, or the Internet, with a speed of access never experienced before. So at the end of the day, once you've decided on your favorite brush, and put in some hours brushing enamels, and rolling on paint, you will be on your way to the next step.

And if you want to become a serious business person in this trade, probably one of the most important things to know are your production rates, along with material performance and costs. These are things many painters struggle with when going off on their own, because a lot of them, fly by the seat of their pants rather than taking the time to keep accurate records.

CharlieHustle14 09-03-2016 05:52 PM

Thanks for the info, I am scheduled to meet with them on this coming Tues. Do you know what the starting wage for painters in Georgia.


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