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Old 06-24-2009, 10:19 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by annrob View Post
I think i will just withdrawl from being a member of this forum.. i dont have time to waste here... need to get to work on trying to figure how to be legit and get right ......then maybe we will see you ALL on the playing field front and center, better yet maybe then i can be you guys and just be a ref. to the game and dog out the hard working players out there!!
I read good advice and constructive critisism in this thread. I read ann getting angry over good advice and and throwing it back at people. It looks to me like you appear to have taken onboard some of the advice ann but then throw a wobbler and say that you're wasting your time here..?

Anyone else here confused..?
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:20 PM   #62
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Ann,
I understand your frustration with the harsh criticism. All the members that posted on this thread are ligament SUCCESSFUL companies. You have many red flags.
You have workers with out WC
You pay your employee's as sub which their not
You are not even sure if you need a Lic.
You have a crappy accountant
You have employee's that let product walk off the job
You wages are out of line
Your jobs are under priced
I know there is more but don't want to go back and search for them.
PT is a great place for a reality check, I have been pissed at the members here to from time to time. But!!! When I chew on it and think about it, They are right other than the exception of Nepps. JK neppy. Don't get all pissy think about what we are trying to tell you. Because when you go to that Bid meeting and you don't have the tools to even get in the door. You just ruined your image and a potential relationship with a client, that could take you over that $200,000 mark. When you finally get legit it will take you years to get that back. You can take this criticism and put it to use and prepare your self for that meeting or bid request. Here you will have egg on your face, But it saved your ass in your business. Because when the word get around (and it WILL), you'll be lucky to get the neighbors dog house repaint after they beat you down in price.

I really want to forget this. But, I haven't and I have thought back and boy did it help me. It save me from getting egg on my face in my business relationships.
Here was my introduction.
Ohhh this going to hurt
And Big thank you to all that have helped me
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:56 PM   #63
 
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Originally Posted by TooledUp View Post
I read good advice and constructive critisism in this thread. I read ann getting angry over good advice and and throwing it back at people. It looks to me like you appear to have taken onboard some of the advice ann but then throw a wobbler and say that you're wasting your time here..?

Anyone else here confused..?

Yes i am reading lots of good advice and i am taking alot of it as useful resources. I don't mean to come off sounding angry, i just find myself frustrated with the digs of how wrong we have been running the business. We are aware that it is wrong and that it has completely went over our heads. This is why i turned to the internet to find useful information where to start. I have found alot of response full of good knowledge and facts that pertain to what i am looking for. i am starting to realizze that in the "digs" of what everyone is telling me that i am doing wrong is where i am getting most of my useful knoweledge. i don't really think i can just walk away from this forum... i will probably just keeep blowing wobblers out there , for this when i get the most response that is useful. for then you pro guys sit back and think of better ways to explain.

I reallly don't think i am necessarily wasting time here, i just need to stop explaining and go to figure out my next step. i will be back to tell you what i have taken in . then thats when i throw something crazy out there. I feel that sometimees these threads just cont' on and on and repeat that is when i feel my time is wasting.....But some knkowledge is always better than none.
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:07 PM   #64
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Sorry ann, it sounded like you were telling people here that they'd wasted your time in the post you made.

Take hold of the reins and put a business plan together ann. Get things into perspective and in priority order and tick them off one by one. Once you get everything down on paper and start to act on it then things will start to fall into place
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:08 PM   #65
 
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I can almost see it
That dream I am dreaming
But there's a voice inside my head saying
"You'll never reach it"

Every step I'm taking
Every move I make feels
Lost with no direction
My faith is shaking

But I gotta keep trying
Gotta keep my head held high

There's always gonna be another mountain
I'm always gonna wanna make it move
Always gonna be a uphill battle
Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose

Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb

The struggles I'm facing
The chances I'm taking
Sometimes might knock me down
But no, I'm not breaking

I may not know it
But these are the moments that
I'm gonna remember most, yeah
Just gotta keep going

And I, I got to be strong
Just keep pushing on

'Cause there's always gonna be another mountain
I'm always gonna wanna make it move
Always gonna be a uphill battle
Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose

Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb, yeah!

There's always gonna be another mountain
I'm always gonna wanna make it move
Always gonna be an uphill battle
Somebody's gonna have to lose

Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb, yeah!

Keep on moving, keep climbing
Keep the faith, baby
It's all about, it's all about the climb
Keep the faith, keep your faith, whoa
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:09 PM   #66
 
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Originally Posted by TooledUp View Post
Sorry ann, it sounded like you were telling people here that they'd wasted your time in the post you made.

Take hold of the reins and put a business plan together ann. Get things into perspective and in priority order and tick them off one by one. Once you get everything down on paper and start to act on it then things will start to fall into place

THANKS!!! It will happen...things will start falling in place soon enough. i will be legit!!!
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:23 PM   #67
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Ann, I would love to see you come back and post and give us an update.
Good Luck to you and your husband.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:48 PM   #68
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What a great thread. This is 75% of our industry in a nutshell. This is who we bid against. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:57 PM   #69
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What a great thread. This is 75% of our industry in a nutshell. This is who we bid against. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.
true
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:03 PM   #70
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Gabe

I read your intro link. You must have thought I was pretty special back then. Look how far we've come!



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Old 06-24-2009, 07:34 PM   #71
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Ann,


Now, anyone can tell you that I am in full support of the little guy who is trying to better him/her self. I'll give people the benefit of the doubt until their boot is on the back of my head as I lay face down in the mud.

You really need to take some of the basic steps described here. The first being to get council about what constitutes a legal and legit contractor in your state.

When you do that basic maneuver, PLEASE come back for more ideas.

Also, in those weeks that you will be busy setting up a legit business, could you practise your writing skills? I don't mean to be demeaning, but it is real tough to understand sometimes what you are trying to say. And BELIEVE me, writing skills, or the lack thereof, DOES reflect on the professionalism of your company.

I mean, if I were a harsh and cruel bustard, I'd say your writing style reminded me of some persona non-gratis that have left this forum.

So please, could you at least re-read your posts twice before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. We strive to be helpful and not many write "reel good" the first draft. I just re-read my crap here and found about ten serious errors.

thanks,

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:18 PM   #72
 
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Ann,


Now, anyone can tell you that I am in full support of the little guy who is trying to better him/her self. I'll give people the benefit of the doubt until their boot is on the back of my head as I lay face down in the mud.

You really need to take some of the basic steps described here. The first being to get council about what constitutes a legal and legit contractor in your state.

When you do that basic maneuver, PLEASE come back for more ideas.

Also, in those weeks that you will be busy setting up a legit business, could you practise your writing skills? I don't mean to be demeaning, but it is real tough to understand sometimes what you are trying to say. And BELIEVE me, writing skills, or the lack thereof, DOES reflect on the professionalism of your company.

I mean, if I were a harsh and cruel bustard, I'd say your writing style reminded me of some persona non-gratis that have left this forum.

So please, could you at least re-read your posts twice before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. We strive to be helpful and not many write "reel good" the first draft. I just re-read my crap here and found about ten serious errors.

thanks,

-Bill

Believe it or not; I was a straight "A" student. Grammar was actually one of my best subjects. My boss always was chewing my butt out for writing(typing) the way i would speak. If we were speaking personaly you would understand what i meant. i am considered to be down to earth, i come off sounding like a "valley girl" Like you know what i mean. I do have a bad habit of it. I am sorry , my next post i will do better i will check it over 3 times. Yet i am a procraqstinator so i will next time!!
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:45 PM   #73
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Ann, if you do some reading between the lines here I think you will understand the responses you are receiving. You are representing a face on all that an established contractor despises. Not you personally but a representation of someone that has no business owning a business. Bare with me if you will, I know that may sting a bit.

I know you did not enter this business with bad intentions. But you did enter into it with absolutely no game plan. You represent to these painters the half-assed run operation that takes shortcuts and prices accordingly. Its all well and good that you want to fix things. You should be commended for that. If you are serious about it. When you talk about having multiple employees andgrossing $100,000 and then still talk about making some profit then a post or two later talking about robbing Peter to pay Paul, its sets off alarms on a businessperson's BS-O-meter.

You'll get much farther by being completely forthcoming. Some guys are still going to resent what you represent and will not help you. I think its better to try and help you so you can do things correctly and stop undercutting the market and cheating taxes. In the long run you will become a healthy contractor and an asset to the trade of painting.

My advice stays the same. Fire everyone and do one man jobs for the next year until you learn how to be a painter and a businessperson.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:51 PM   #74
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Ken

That may be the essence of the responses. There are so many one man operations here that can gross 90-100k alone, that to hear of someone running 8-15 guys in that range is beyond alarming, family, illegal, underage, sweatshop or otherwise, not happening.

Your advice is right on. Most guys here understand what infrastructure would have to be in place to properly operate with that many guys. The words are music, well, cacaphony. Good advice, wind it down, go small and build the foundation to be able to grow on. Houses of cards suck in the end.



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Old 06-24-2009, 11:32 PM   #75
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Its good to have Ken back. If only Brian would waste more time here we would have quite the brain trust. I know lots of people thinks that "they" (NEPS, VP, Ken, Brian, to mention a few) are an exclusive clique dominating PT but I feel that without them all that would be left is the blind leading the blind. And you might still get somewhere, you just won't know where that is and where to go next.
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:53 PM   #76
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Its good to have Ken back. If only Brian would waste more time here we would have quite the brain trust. I know lots of people thinks that "they" (NEPS, VP, Ken, Brian, to mention a few) are an exclusive clique dominating PT but I feel that without them all that would be left is the blind leading the blind. And you might still get somewhere, you just won't know where that is and where to go next.

Yup, no one's ever denied they have a lot of business savvy



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Old 06-25-2009, 10:02 AM   #77
 
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Ken

that to hear of someone running 8-15 guys in that range is beyond alarming, family, illegal, underage, sweatshop or otherwise, not happening.

Your advice is right on. Most guys here understand what infrastructure would have to be in place to "properly"(KEY WORD) operate with that many guys. The words are music, well, cacaphony. Good advice, wind it down, go small and build the foundation to be able to grow on. Houses of cards suck in the end.

When i read this i felt an urge to respond to wipe away the concern. We know that we have not been operating "properly" for the previous years; we were not aware that we weren't operating legaly.

I think i understand why this is confusing for all of you professional business folks, and why you feel that i am not being straightforward. Lack of details........?

DETAILS:
#1 Rob(my other1/2
#2 Jay(Son of #1-19 yrs old)
#3 Shell(My daughter-19 YRS old)
#4 Derk(Boyfriend of #3)
#5 Josh(Boyfriend of another daughter of#1)
#6 Dust(brother of #4)
#7 Bob(Brother to #1)
#8 TA( Sister to #1&7)
#9 EA(Husband of #8)
#10 Kat(Daughter of #8-19yrs old)
#11 Mat (boyfriend to another daughter of #1)
#12 Mik( cousin of mine out of prison)
#13, #14, #15... These #'s i threw in for i know at times we have brought in "so and so friends" and/or couple of old buddies of ours when they needed to make extra cash or we needed another hand on a job.

I guess i have not been clear.....I think i stated~8 "everydayers" for the most part we will work this many a day; not necessarily the same ones, or all full days. Lots of variables that i choose not to try to detail out any better than above. Yes, our wages to these guys are not high, but are min. wage. Some of the above individuals above have really learned a lot and have become valuable assets: this is why we want to fix the business. we want to keep them working with us, we want to offer "Company Benifits"(Keep them under us "as employees". (Or they will split and be another one of those "un-legit" "business owner/sp contractor" that "real business owners" despise.
Any clearer? Any questions? Any more new info?
(keep it coming..I am taking notes)

Now for Profit/rob peter to pay paul comment...
DETAILS:

At the end of the year(H&R) tells us we had a profit of -$X, so i told you that we are making profit. I also told you that this profit is more than if he worked in a factory making ~$***xx.(No, we are not getting rich, we just living) In this we seen lots of potential to be more proffitable if we were more organized. Once again why i came to you folks.(I asssumed that all had to start from the bottom up) I"m going to upload photos of office and "work trucks" (one day soon)justfor s_it and giggles.

OLD Business Plan:

I want to step up to a pole barn with a couple trucks with enclosed pull behind traiers for supplies and equipment.

Nice office space to have morning meetings and organize files.

Have crews that cover the state rather than Tri-county areas.

Have an account for the business to run and operate out of, rather than personal account.

Buy some inventory at wholesale prices buy buying in bulk.

Then continue to grow the business slowly to cover tri-state, and keep expanding to nationwide areas.


SIMPLE,SIMPLE so i thought but, all her have advised me of lots of small yet very important things that need to happen first.


During the year i state that we "rob peter to pay paul" this being said, i feel that if we "go legit" and set-up business account that this would not happen. Everyone knows that there are lots of variables that change when we(and most all business operators) get paid. Sometimes this variable is caused by our lack of remembering to write up the final bid,or even dropping it off. ("business in the head, and notebooks that get lost?)
I found that we have accomplished jobs and months later recall that we never submitted the claim to be paid. This is why i came out asking how to get a grip with these issues.(organize office and there such) In trying to get information of how to solve those issues, i have only come across greater and worse problems. I realize that these: license, WC, accountant, and other issues will need to be resolved first. Once this happens i believe things as organizing better business records will fall into place easier.

I will be back for more questions soon!! Thanks for the great advice!!

I cannot help myself, i will keep checking this thread for new posts and i doubt that i can refrain from adding comments.

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Old 06-25-2009, 02:55 PM   #78
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Going legit is going to double your expenses. You may have to raise your prices by 100% to compensate. Are you prepared to do that?

Other questions:

• Do you have a marketing plan?
• How do you generate leads right now?
• Do you have a website?
• Do you know your customer acquisition costs?
• Does your "company" make any money or do you guys take everything left over after payroll and materials? (otherwise affectionately known as "checkbook accounting")
• Part two of above question: Do you take a steady salary from the business?
• Do you have access to money/credit?

Keep in mind a business plan goes into execution. What you posted is a wish list. Two very different things but one ties to the other.

Example:

Your wish from above: Nice office space to have morning meetings and organize files.

Action: The garage will be converted into office space. HVAC, cable, and a wireless network will be added. Electrical will be inspected for code. Walls will be sheetrock'd with two coats of paint. Floor will be expoxy coated with area rugs. Office will be furnished with 2 file cabinets, desk and chair which we will purchase. Existing computer and printer will be utilized.
Breakdown of expenses:
Labor: $800-$1800 (higher end if we need electrician)
Materials including furnishing: $3000
Capital source: Corporate credit card with 16% APR. Amount will be paid off in even increments over the course of 6 months.

Ann, do you see how above is very different form a wish? You plan for the expense. You know your attack and you have an outline. There is a beginning and end and you will know exactly what you have spent. You do this for everything in your business. you say you want crews all over the state. Why? Very expensive to run crews that distance. If you could do the same amount of work within 25 miles, wouldn't you prefer that? That's where your marketing and advertising plans come in.
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:20 PM   #79
 
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Whoa Nelly!!! You gotta take a deep breathe and let it out. In order to run a successful business you need a plan and you and hubby need to hammer out the priorities.

I strongly recommend that you read the book How To Take Charge Of Time And Your Life. It will help you learn how to prioritize. (And might help you tame some of your anxiety as well).

I have to disagree with some of the comments about the phone. True your husband has been the voice of the business...but how much time is being wasted by phone calls that can be fielded by someone else. (Again an issue of priorities). I would weigh the pros and cons. Each of you needs to evaluate the question "What is the best use of my time RIGHT NOW?"

I am a big fan of SCORE (Society of Retired Executives) and the SBA. They have tons of knowledge and information. But first you need a plan. Might be a crappy plan, might be a good plan...but you have to put your ducks in a row and then figure out how you are going to tackle it.

Please let me know if you have any specific questions regarding organizing and such. Perhaps I can offer some suggestions as I am all too familiar with the enterpreneurial beast

Remember:Failure to plan is planning to fail...

I wish you the best of luck!!
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:07 AM   #80
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I was just re-skimming this thread and one thought came to mind.
Ignorance is bliss.

How is it going Ann, sorry we robbed you of your almost bliss.
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