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Old 10-27-2010, 07:17 PM   #21
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Why would you think more "licensed" painters are ripping people off?
You don't think at least testing is better than nothing?
Most licensed contractors I know have gotten their experience in the field not from a book!
I personally would feel a little better knowing the guy I let in my home has at lest been somewhat vetted.
There is never an absolute guarantee on anything! Laws only keep honest people honest and I would rather do business with someone who is following the rules.It reflects on ones integrity whether you agree with it or not.IMHO
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:29 PM   #22
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Sure, I personally think having a license does nothing other then giving the government the power to control you. It does nothing for you other then give you the permission to work on jobs bigger then $500.00. It is aimed at protecting the consumer, which does not work. Having a license does not mean you know how to paint or run a business. It just means you spent some money on a school to tell you how to pass the test. I would bet half of all work here in California is performed by people with either no licenses or suspended ones. I know a few painters that worked for over 10 years with out having one, they ran crews, the whole nine yards before they decided to get one. Nothing ever happened to them. The Swift team here in cal is a joke. They just occasionally have a sting operations, they bring the media in to make it look like they are doing something. This in my opinion is just to make sure they will get money for next years budget. They say its to protect the consumer, which again it does not. I would also bet that licensed contractors are ripping more customers off then non licensed ones.

Pat
There are also a lot of people who have drivers licenses that don't know how to drive. However, I trust a driver that has made the effort to study the drivers test and pass, over someone who believes he's a good driver, but refuses to get a license.

There has to be a way to measure some semblence of competency. Otherwise, we have a nation of people claiming to be this, and knowing all about that without any significant, or measurable qualifications. Is that fair to the consumer, or an employee?

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Old 10-27-2010, 07:58 PM   #23
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A license proves nothing regarding skill, competence, or business management. Although I think it should still be required. If anything, it proves that you can follow through and complete a task.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:12 PM   #24
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I'm all for retard painters. They just make my work look oh so much sweeter.

I hear both camps on the pro/ con side of liscensing. The bottom line is: you either are a good painter or your not. Most quality professional painters do what is required to be legitimate because they are OCD in all areas of the painting business. If I had a dime for everyone that picked up a brush and called themselves a painter, I'd be filthy rich. The reality is if you just sling paint, your not going to be around long. If you are around long enough to make a reputation for yourself, you will get licensed because 500 jobs WILL get old after a while.

Unless you like painting walls in bedrooms for the rest of your life.

Back to the OP, I wish you luck and welcome to Paint Talk.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by aaron61 View Post
I support licensing even though it may seem like over kill for painting. It does serve as a little bit of a buffer to weed out some of the hacks and rip offs.
No it doesn't. Read the OP.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:44 PM   #26
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can take a customer to court for falure to pay if you are not licensed. If your state requires it, and you ever have a HO decide "screw it, I'm not paying", then "forget about it"...........
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:46 PM   #27
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No licensing for painting contractors in Illinois by the way......
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:07 PM   #28
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I'm tempted to move the Licensing comments to a new thread to continue!
But it does apply to the OP.

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There is a reason why they require 4 years to get your license.Work 4 years for yourself as an unlicensed contractor would probably not count.
So you either do it now or later.

I support licensing even though it may seem like over kill for painting.It does serve as a little bit of a buffer to weed out some of the hacks and rip offs:

4 years experience shows experience,that's good.
Financial check shows you might not steel their money,that's good.
References is proof of good character,that's good.
Testing for business knowledge and trade skills,shows you might be trying to run a business instead of working for beer money,that's good.

Anyone care to add????
I agree.
In Utah, our requirements are similar to California. Except it is enforced very well. Rob has been "carded" on the job site twice this year. You are also required to do Continuing Education every year. The state publishes a list of suspended licenses and infractions every month. If you do not have WC and GL, you will lose your license.
GC's (most) will not hire you without a license. This is one reason we are able to do so well in New Construction.

There are several ways it protects the homeowner as well. They can easily check your license and WC online. I have them bookmarked in my phone and can do a search right on the spot.

To the OP, your attitude of "I did some painting and can do a good job, but don't want to follow the rules" is what lowers the level of professionalism in our industry. You are the guy who is going to take on a job with $$ signs in your eyes and be back here with "what do I do now?" because you got in over your head.

Take Bikerboys advice, get some experience and read as much as you can here while you work on building a base for your business.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:46 PM   #29
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I dunno, I just don't have allot of faith in this licensing system. When I got my license 15 years ago, all I can really remember is the test was mostly on legal issues, from proper contracts to the notice to owner and stuff like this. There were some painting questions but I remember they were really stupid.

Even this latest RRP stuff, It was piratically Impossible to fail the test at the end of the class. Right before they handed us the test, the guy basically gave us the answers to each question. You could have slept the entire day and passed the test. Now we are officially certified to perform lead related jobs. You would think with how serious the fines are they would have made sure that you really know what your doing prior to diving in these type of projects.

For me it makes no difference if your licensed or not. I just wanna see what type of work you have done and talk with a few prior customers.

Pat
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:26 PM   #30
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In Mass we do not have licensing requirements for painters, although if I remember correctly back in the 70's-80's there was something passed. It was totally ignored and thus unenforceable.

Now being a " government loving liberal" that you all think I am, I am 100% against the excuses the pols make to pass such laws. They say it is to protect the consumer, but my distrust of ALL political parties knows it is just a way to generate income. This is something both sides can sink their teeth into because it generates income without "raising taxes". Instituting or raising fees is just a smoke screen that Repubs, Dems, and Inds use to raise necessary funds without using the nasty "T" word.

HOWEVER, in conversations with many LEGITIMATE painters and other trades people (most notably in CA and NJ) there is the opinion that it does serve as somewhat of a protection for the consumer. Sure, there are always sleezeballs that screw the unwary HO out of hard earned cash. Some wear suits, some wear whites, (and all other types of clothes). There will ALWAYS be that element.

But, the truth be told, if a state requires a licensing program, it does show a certain professionalism about those that gain that license.



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Old 10-27-2010, 10:31 PM   #31
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There is a reason why they require 4 years to get your license.Work 4 years for yourself as an unlicensed contractor would probably not count.
From reading over at CT from Licensed Guru it seems that you can get the experience from being self employed.

Gabriel - If you really want to learn a few things check this thread out over at CT - http://www.contractortalk.com/f63/ca...censing-32617/

Lots of good info for California guys

Pat
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron61 View Post

Anyone care to add????
You should start a new thread to keep from mucking this one up.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:00 PM   #33
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Was this not a joke post?
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:43 AM   #34
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Here in Maryland, the license test is really geared towards osha rules, labor laws and consumer protection. You don't have to be a good painter, but you have to prove financial stability and to be honest, your skills are not tested. It's a pain in the butt and enforcement seldom strays far from Baltimore (where the main office is) but it is hard to argue with the premise of worker safety and consumer protection.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:36 AM   #35
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WOW! even the big ol' liberal da Arch likes it!
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:24 PM   #36
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I support licensing just for the fact that it cuts out 3/4 of my competition on gc projects.

Out side of that, on the residential side. It insures the property owner they have recourse if an accident would occur, whether it be damage to their property or a employee getting injured on their property. This can all be checked through the CSLB website. Verifying licensing status, bonded, who holds the lic, who the officers are of the entity, if their has been any complaints against the license holder, GL, and WC. Calif does not require a entity to carry WC to hold a valid contractors lic. As long as you file a form stating you are not employing any one, nor is it required to have your GL. However homeowners still have recourse through the required bond for property damage. All this is info can be found on the CSLB website, a contractor is required to report GL info and if they are employing as well as the WC info.

As a license contractor, the license HELPS protect the contractor with client that don't pay. If I were not licensed and completed a 10,000 project legally the client is only responsible to pay the 500 bucks, because they were acting as a contractor without a license.

Prior to getting your license, is its mandatory to have a background check. If you have any felonies, you can't get a license. Another way to know what is working on your property and around your family. At least prior to becoming licensed. However you can loose your lic. for becoming a felon, or just conducting bad business practices.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I support licensing just for the fact that it cuts out 3/4 of my competition on gc projects.

Out side of that, on the residential side. It insures the property owner they have recourse if an accident would occur, whether it be damage to their property or a employee getting injured on their property. This can all be checked through the CSLB website. Verifying licensing status, bonded, who holds the lic, who the officers are of the entity, if their has been any complaints against the license holder, GL, and WC. Calif does not require a entity to carry WC to hold a valid contractors lic. As long as you file a form stating you are not employing any one, nor is it required to have your GL. However homeowners still have recourse through the required bond for property damage. All this is info can be found on the CSLB website, a contractor is required to report GL info and if they are employing as well as the WC info.

As a license contractor, the license HELPS protect the contractor with client that don't pay. If I were not licensed and completed a 10,000 project legally the client is only responsible to pay the 500 bucks, because they were acting as a contractor without a license.

Prior to getting your license, is its mandatory to have a background check. If you have any felonies, you can't get a license. Another way to know what is working on your property and around your family. At least prior to becoming licensed. However you can loose your lic. for becoming a felon, or just conducting bad business practices.
What if I'm a felon and pay someone to be a licensed contractor for me and sign contracts?
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:53 PM   #38
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What if I'm a felon and pay someone to be a licensed contractor for me and sign contracts?
Gabe got this one wrong - you can be a convicted felon and still get a license here in California. It depends on what you were convicted on, when, and all sorts of stuff. Each case is reviewable by the board.

Pat
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:09 PM   #39
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What if I'm a felon and pay someone to be a licensed contractor for me and sign contracts?
No can do, no leasing, renting, borrowing of any kind. That is grounds for suspension for 5 years. In which you would have to take the test all over. However, you could have a Responsible Managing Employee (RME) who is the qualifier for the license and may not hold any ownership in the company. However a RME can only qualify for one license at a time. So the RME may have a Sole Owner license but it must be inactive while the person is acting as an RME.

Or you could have a Responsible Managing Officer (RMO) who is the qualifier for the license and may or may not hold any ownership in the company, and can be the qualifier up to 3 corporate licenses as long as he or she holds at least 20% ownership in each company.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:12 PM   #40
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Gabe got this one wrong - you can be a convicted felon and still get a license here in California. It depends on what you were convicted on, when, and all sorts of stuff. Each case is reviewable by the board.

Pat
Ignoring.....
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