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Old 03-18-2011, 11:27 PM   #41
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Default Duration deep base exterior

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I have seen plenty of my Super Paint exteriors still looking good after 10 years. I rarely do one coat. Mostly SW Super Paint for me. Been using SP since it hit the market. Used A-100 prior to SP back when it was still an 8 yr paint. I've also applied my share of Duration too. I do two coats no matter what the product. Recently statred using BMs "Aura" too on jobs with deeper colors and also the referals the local BM dealer has been giving me. (two just in the last week) Matter fact, if the BM dealer keeps passing me jobs I may just go with BM exclusively. But, even with a good product like Aura, still two coats. Back rolling or back brushing depends on the substrate. 95% of my exteriors are HardiPlank and I dont back roll those. I currently offer a 3 yr warranty and have been considering increasing it to 5 yrs.
Speaking of deeper colors, Duration deep base seems much thinner to me. Is it, or is it my imagination? Awfully runny today as I was backbrushing over previously painted rough cedar.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:05 AM   #42
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Speaking of deeper colors, Duration deep base seems much thinner to me. Is it, or is it my imagination? Awfully runny today as I was backbrushing over previously painted rough cedar.
Its not you. Less "solids" in the deep bases, so it will act like its "thinner". The nice thing about Aura, the colorants use the same technology as the paint, so hide isnt compromised with most deep colors.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:13 PM   #43
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I think SW makes great paint. It is a s good as anyones or better. Problem is it is too damn expensive. I find it hard to believe that SW superpaint is any better than Valspar or Behr "premium" paints. The difference is ten bucks a gallon. I'm paying 28.99 for PM200 and that is with my 10% discount. The stuff is just as thin as the Valspar 2000, just 10$ more a gallon. The SW managers are telling me that all their paints are "tested" unlike Behr and Valspar. Whatever. I'm tired of getting the "high pressure" but kissing at SW. I'm a contractor.I don't need it. I appreciate any advice on product info but come on. Sad thing is SW owns Purdy, but I can buy Purdy bvrushes cheaper at Lowes and Home Depot.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:23 PM   #44
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I don't have any issues with the quality of these paints. I believe they are durable and last even if I question the can's warranty. I also believe in proper prep and proper application of two coats. My issue is more of a pricing strategy. The way I price two coats of SP vs one coat of Duration (following label directions on a repaint). If I win a bid with two coats of SP my profits are much higher than when I win a bid with one coat of Duration. Duration's warranty makes it easy to upsell but decreases my profits. With this same theory I can easily lose bids due to others specing one coat of Duration vs my two of SP. I was curious how others handle this change in profits and product specs or maybe your pricing strategies are different or maybe you only spec Duration.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:35 AM   #45
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Its not you. Less "solids" in the deep bases, so it will act like its "thinner". The nice thing about Aura, the colorants use the same technology as the paint, so hide isnt compromised with most deep colors.
Aura-is that a BM paint? I have no dealer in my town and the next big city is 75 miles away, so I get either Valspar or SW.

I agree SW paints are high, but I charge the customer for that anyway, so profit is not compromised. Really, most jobs I do are not huge so cheap paint versus SW paints only changes a bid by $100 bucks or so.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #46
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Aura-is that a BM paint? I have no dealer in my town and the next big city is 75 miles away, so I get either Valspar or SW.

I agree SW paints are high, but I charge the customer for that anyway, so profit is not compromised. Really, most jobs I do are not huge so cheap paint versus SW paints only changes a bid by $100 bucks or so.
Yes, Aura is a BM paint. Do you have an Ace Hardware store nearby? Ace HW sells BM paint, at least in my neck of the woods. Not sure about everywhere.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:42 PM   #47
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I don't have any issues with the quality of these paints. I believe they are durable and last even if I question the can's warranty. I also believe in proper prep and proper application of two coats. My issue is more of a pricing strategy. The way I price two coats of SP vs one coat of Duration (following label directions on a repaint). If I win a bid with two coats of SP my profits are much higher than when I win a bid with one coat of Duration. Duration's warranty makes it easy to upsell but decreases my profits. With this same theory I can easily lose bids due to others specing one coat of Duration vs my two of SP. I was curious how others handle this change in profits and product specs or maybe your pricing strategies are different or maybe you only spec Duration.
Most of the exterior work I do I price for one coat of primer(usually oil if over exsisting oil) and one coat of a good latex like Duration. If the exisisting wood is oil, I like to "modernize" it by priming with oil and topcoating with latex. I never chance putting latex finish over oil finish. I like a flat dull substrate to aplly the latex to.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:13 PM   #48
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Any thoughts on pricing/profits and strategies with one coat and two coat systems? How can you be competative with a two coat system when there are one coat systems like Duration?
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:03 AM   #49
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Any thoughts on pricing/profits and strategies with one coat and two coat systems? How can you be competative with a two coat system when there are one coat systems like Duration?
These are tough questions, and ultimately I think the answers depend on what the norms are in your market, and what premium you can command over "Joe's Generic Painting".

I do a *lot* of Duration work because a lot of my business is in a newer part of town where the homes are just coming up for their first re-paint and homeowners don't usually change the color that much. More important, many of my competitors sell one-coat jobs. So the market in this part of town is conditioned to expect that. So I position two-coat jobs as being for either old & weathered, new construction, or drastic color changes. Trying to sell two coats always would put me at a huge disadvantage and price me out of a *lot* of work. So I sell one coat jobs using Duration. It's either figure out a way to make it work with some kind of decent margins or don't do many exteriors.

So on to how to price one coat Duration jobs. One school of thought says just price it like you would any other job (Labor, Materials, Overhead, Profit). In this case, the materials cost will be higher, so your price will reflect what you need to cover that, and then labor, overhead, and profit are what they would be anyways. Another school of thought says that you should be able to charge a premium for the value of the greater life expectancy of the better paint.

For example, if your market allows, you could sell along these lines: "Mr. Customer, I have two proposals for you. The first is to paint your home with one coat of XYZ paint at a cost of $3,000. I know from experience that this will only last about 5 years in this climate, so your per year cost is $600. My second option is to paint one coat of Duration at $4,500. Forgetting the lifetime warranty, let's say this lasts just 10 years. Your per year cost is now just $450 *and* you won't have to go through the disruption of having your home painted again as soon. Don't you agree that is worth the premium?". Note that I said "if" your market allows. If all of your competitors are simply tacking on the increased metarials cost, you will have a hard sell using this approach.

One last thing to consider when pricing one coat jobs vs. two coat jobs: You will complete the one-coat job faster and move on to the next job. So be sure to look at the big picture over time, not just the fact that you make less on each job. Be sure to show a profit on each job, but don't put too much pressure to make a killing on every job. It may work out that an "acceptable profit" on lots of jobs works out better for you than a killing on only a few.

And again, all this needs to be considered along with what your market will allow you to do. I'd love to get a 50% "value premium" for Duration jobs, but my market just won't allow that. Yours might though.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:09 AM   #50
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Interesting take on it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:37 PM   #51
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Local- that is exactly what I was trying to get at. I agree with you as my primary market is like yours in that we are doing the first repaint. I also like how you break the systems down into cost per year based on the average repaint schedule and not mentioning the can's warranty. I appreciate the detailed response as it clearified well and gave me some pointers to sell on.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:21 PM   #52
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Yes, Aura is a BM paint. Do you have an Ace Hardware store nearby? Ace HW sells BM paint, at least in my neck of the woods. Not sure about everywhere.
Good point. I forgot Ace even sold paint! I will go in and check to see what they have and their prices.

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Old 03-27-2011, 08:08 PM   #53
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I like this thread now



It doesnt matter the product, or the manufacturer. In order to cover the warranty it needs to be applied properly and to the Mfr's specs. Most product warranty's are product replacement only. They're covering a $30'ish can of paint, you're warrantying a $3k ( example ) paint job. I wouldnt base my warranty on theirs. If you choose to offer a warranty, the job need to be done YOUR way, with the products YOU choose...its YOUR warranty after all. Am I right?
I couldn't have said it any better. I don't use the manufacturers warranty. I base it on the quality of work I do. Prep work being the foundation as to how long your paint job lasts. If you do a good job prepping and apply painting..you should be good.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:22 PM   #54
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Most painters in my area say spray and back roll is 2 coats. HA!

Duration is tough to get used too. I used to have some guys that used in exclusively when doing repaints until it got over $50 per gallon. Funny how that will change your opinion. We used to sell a ton more superpaint but now everyone is telling me it doesnt cover as good. Then again I know we have said we have reformulated a-100 and most commercial guys like it now. Who knows?

It is kind of like fishing lines- ever wonder why bass pro shops has a 40 ft shelf full of different brands of line? It is all about what you have confidence in.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:14 AM   #55
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Most painters in my area say spray and back roll is 2 coats. HA!
Some painters around me think it's using both horizontal and vertical motions.
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:53 PM   #56
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yeah 8 years here in missouri two, 5 years for a house with superpaint, duration is def. better
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:10 AM   #57
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I paint in Winchester VA where there are many older homes. Quite a few have the large porches with tall columns. I have been using a two coat system with duration paint on these homes for over 6 years and I am very pleased with the results. The columns weather well and hold the sheen with duration.

Some contractors don't trust the fact that you can prime bare wood with Duration. But I have found that it really works as a primer as well....
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