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Old 12-27-2015, 03:36 PM   #21
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I would think that a date with some sort of physic would be a pretty crappy date.

Physic (noun): a medicine that purges, laxative.
LOL... I did correct that error before your post.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:45 PM   #22
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I am down to one and only one employee and he is paid 40+ an hour. He has less than 5 yrs experience. He worked for me several years ago then unexpected life circumstances had him leave for a while. ( no not jail) I have personally trained him and he has learned very well.
One of the main reasons that I pay him so well is because I can put him on any job and it will be done exactly the way I expect, he does not call in "sick", he does not make excuses for not completing a job, and he will stick with a job no matter what a PITA it may be or even if it takes way longer than expected. However, the absolute main reason is because he is absolutely awesome with the customers and his main focus is making the customer happy. This is hands down the most valuable thing that an employee can provide to an employer and the return on repeat work and referrals more than pays for his pay grade.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:39 PM   #23
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Wow! He's probably one of the best paid painters in the country!
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:00 AM   #24
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I'm thinking RF is trying to win another "painter of the month contest!" Just kidding! Great start to a great thread. I agree with your approach of trying to pay more than others for good painters. That has served me well over the years. The booming economy here has made that harder lately as everyone is raising wages but in the end that's a good thing too as its really hard for painters to afford to live anywhere near where they work around here.
Never give up Damon ... never give up

While paying top dollar doesn’t guarantee the best worker it does set the stage to what you’ll expect from them & what they can expect from you

Paying low to mid-range won’t attract the good workers that a good living wage will

Having a low paid worker on site can hurt your company, having a well-paid painter can make it grow

One thing I’ve learned to attract a good painter is to teach them the business side

They can go anywhere for a paycheck but I’m willing to teach them the business side, how to bid, dealing with HO, finding job, building a name

As everyone here knows that’s the hardest part,

Mainly because everyone has to learn the good old fashion way … the school of hard knocks ... working for cheap till you get your numbers right

The down side of this? Well for me it’s not really a downside but you’ll lose a good painter every 5-6 years

The upside … the satisfaction you’ve done your part keeping the trade alive, just last week I ran into a painter that worked for me 20 years ago and they still thanked me for taking the time to teach them

Just lost a great painter last week after 9 years, hurts but glad to see them grow, was truly the best painter i've ever worked with

hired 2 new painters that going to work out great that i've known for years
looking forward to teaching them the business ( already great painters )

Remember to take a deep breath ... enjoy life don't let your job rule your life


.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:25 AM   #25
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Would you prefer the answer to be the typical, "In your chair". Or, would you like to hear something like, "A pivotal part of this company"?
Either one shows they have ambition and not just wanting to settle for mediocrecy in life
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:13 AM   #26
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Repaint is right where I am with my mindset of paying top dollar with the full expectation of losing the well paid and trained employee at some point.
I have been teaching this employee every aspect of the painting business even having him join me during the estimate and showing him how to come up with a fair, competitive, and most importantly profitable estimate.
I have always been a teacher at heart and teaching someone how to " fish" has always benefited me as much them. I think that just paying an employee to perform work with no other expectations of them is hurtful to the them, yourself, the trade, and the customer.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:55 AM   #27
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Have any of you guys ever tried running a very well thought out, but strict Ad when trying to find a new painter that would help "filter out" 90% of the ones with a poor attitude? At least then, the Ad is doing its job by filtering a large portion of the ones you aren't interested in talking to. This is just a starting point out of the gate. Anyone try this before?
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:05 AM   #28
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Have any of you guys ever tried running a very well thought out, but strict Ad when trying to find a new painter that would help "filter out" 90% of the ones with a poor attitude? At least then, the Ad is doing its job by filtering a large portion of the ones you aren't interested in talking to. This is just a starting point out of the gate. Anyone try this before?
To me the issue with that approach is that it's difficult to measure those values that I know we consider important. It's one thing to ask for someone with three years work painting experience, but another thing to ask for trustworthy, reliable, clean, etc. How many people will admit, to themselves or others, that they are untrustworthy, unreliable, or unclean?
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:39 PM   #29
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To me the issue with that approach is that it's difficult to measure those values that I know we consider important. It's one thing to ask for someone with three years work painting experience, but another thing to ask for trustworthy, reliable, clean, etc. How many people will admit, to themselves or others, that they are untrustworthy, unreliable, or unclean?
That's been my point all along. Measuring another person's character trait is way too subjective. Besides, I've known too many painting contractors that haven't possessed what I would consider good character traits.

By virtue of being in a position to employ another, doesn't necessarily qualify someone as having greater intelligence or integrity. I think a lot of painting contractors falsely assume they are experts at human behavior, when in fact, they're no better at it than the guy or gal sitting across from them.

I mean, we've already demonstrated the cliches of the interview in this thread, with questions like, "Where do you see yourself in five years?". How does a question like that not prompt an answer like "In your chair", having watched Wallstreet's Gordon Gekko and every other 80's and 90'ish movies that propogated the message of dominance in business?

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Old 12-28-2015, 02:49 PM   #30
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That's been my point all along. Measuring another person's character trait is way too subjective. Besides, I've known too many painting contractors that haven't possessed what I would consider good character traits.

By virtue of being in a position to employ another, doesn't necessarily qualify someone as having greater intelligence or integrity. I think a lot of painting contractors falsely assume they are experts at human behavior, when in fact, they're no better at it than the guy or gal sitting across from them.

I mean, we've already demonstrated the cliches of the interview in this thread, with questions like, "Where do you see yourself in five years?". How does a question like that not prompt an answer like "In your chair", having watched Wallstreet's Gordon Gekko and every other 80's and 90'ish movies that propogated the message of dominance in business?
I think you are not understanding the question. It goes well with other questions and not just as a question asked alone.
I hired a girl, that said "Either being in an important role in a company or having my own, I want to work for a company where I can grow and learn not only new skills, but be an actual part of a company and not just a pawn.

That girl was so hardworking, and showed up everyday, taking initiative and motivation to actually learn why things are done.
She left after 3 months which was the total of her painting experience to an out of town company offering 6 dollars more an hr, and I was already paying her well for her experience. But I understand as you have to pay bills somehow.

I want people with goals in their life working for me, and not people who are happy to just settle where they are. The question might be cliche, but it works.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:48 PM   #31
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I think you are not understanding the question. It goes well with other questions and not just as a question asked alone.
I hired a girl, that said "Either being in an important role in a company or having my own, I want to work for a company where I can grow and learn not only new skills, but be an actual part of a company and not just a pawn.

That girl was so hardworking, and showed up everyday, taking initiative and motivation to actually learn why things are done.
She left after 3 months which was the total of her painting experience to an out of town company offering 6 dollars more an hr, and I was already paying her well for her experience. But I understand as you have to pay bills somehow.

I want people with goals in their life working for me, and not people who are happy to just settle where they are. The question might be cliche, but it works.
I'd be inclined to ask the interviewer, "Where do you see your business in five years?", given that the success of my goals are likely hinged to the success of his. In other words, there's no way to give an appropriate answer to that question, without all the information.

Anything less is just tossing out boiler plate answers to vague questions. And frankly, I'd be sceptical of someone so ambitious to be in my seat before understanding what they'd be getting themselves into.

I prefer reason over speculative hype.

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Old 12-28-2015, 05:51 PM   #32
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I'd be inclined to ask the interviewer, "Where do you see your business in five years?", given that the success of my goals are likely hinged to the success of his. In other words, there's no way to give an appropriate answer to that question, without all the information.

Anything less is just tossing out boiler plate answers to vague questions. And frankly, I'd be sceptical of someone so ambitious to be in my seat before understanding what they'd be getting themselves into.

I prefer reason over speculative hype.
CA they are not getting my seat ... today, tomorrow or in 10 years

But i'am happy to teach them how to get out on their own, it kinda like having kids

i don't want them living at home all their life, i want them to grow, learn and one day get out ....

That's when they really appreciate what you've done for them. They understand the hard work, the grind of running a business and now it's there turn
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:39 PM   #33
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Repaint, do you have your employes sign a non compete contract and if not, how do you deal with your employees bidding against you?
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:34 PM   #34
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Repaint, do you have your employes sign a non compete contract and if not, how do you deal with your employees bidding against you?
Never ... i'm 56 years old and ready to sell out in the next 10 years

Built up a solid company with plenty of new leads, old leads and still growing

Sure my name is Repaint Florida but totally impossible for me to
Repaint Florida so there is room for other good companies

Remember when someone leaves me doesn't mean they are ready to hire 20 painters and put me out of business

they still have to start small & grow just like we all did. But at least they have some knowledge, skill & discipline courtesy of RPF

it help us both, they are not out there lowballing, they know their worth which keep the prices up so we can all make a honest living

i pass them small jobs & help when i can, in the mean time they are beating the streets growing just like i did 37+ years ago

I have much respect for them trying to grow and not being a sheep collecting a paycheck

If i service my customers right there is not a change in hell they will steal them ... 2 months ago i was bidding on the same job as one of my old painters

Felt good seeing him knowing i helped teach him, i asked if he had his numbers right to make money, if he felt good with his bid, he said yes

At the end of the day i got the job, you gotta remember i've been doing this 37+ years which says a lot to the right customer, the one's that want to pay for my service

many times i get the job because of my history ... and that's what i try to teach, build a solid company / name and you'll have work. There are HO out there that will pay for quality

chasing the low bid, bottom feeding job just was never my thing but to each his own

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Old 12-28-2015, 07:41 PM   #35
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^^^^^^^

Post of the year, IMO.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:13 PM   #36
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Never ... i'm 56 years old and ready to sell out in the next 10 years

Built up a solid company with plenty of new leads, old leads and still growing

Sure my name is Repaint Florida but totally impossible for me to
Repaint Florida so there is room for other good companies

Remember when someone leaves me doesn't mean they are ready to hire 20 painters and put me out of business

they still have to start small & grow just like we all did. But at least they have some knowledge, skill & discipline courtesy of RPF

it help us both, they are not out there lowballing, they know their worth which keep the prices up so we can all make a honest living

i pass them small jobs & help when i can, in the mean time they are beating the streets growing just like i did 37+ years ago

I have much respect for them trying to grow and not being a sheep collecting a paycheck

If i service my customers right there is not a change in hell they will steal them ... 2 months ago i was bidding on the same job as one of my old painters

Felt good seeing him knowing i helped teach him, i asked if he had his numbers right to make money, if he felt good with his bid, he said yes

At the end of the day i got the job, you gotta remember i've been doing this 37+ years which says a lot to the right customer, the one's that want to pay for my service

many times i get the job because of my history ... and that's what i try to teach, build a solid company / name and you'll have work. There are HO out there that will pay for quality

chasing the low bid, bottom feeding job just was never my thing but to each his own

.
and let me set the record straight ... it's not like i churning out robo painters by the dozen

most work for me 5-6 years before starting out on their own
so you'll only looking at 3-4 companies every 10 years

in a city like Orlando that's a drop in the bucket in competition, so while i might had added 4 companies every 10 years they are well qualified, know the numbers to survive & been a plus to our trade

if you look at the untrained, unskilled, lowballers with a brush who never learned the trade i've only done a small part in helping

.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:35 PM   #37
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I forget, where is "here" for you?
The desert aka the 3rd world, desert Southwest. Don't ask for more than $100 per day or you can look for another job. Good luck, they aren't out there.


That's the mentality.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:53 PM   #38
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RP, thanks for training the guys right and everyone else out there that actually sees this trade as..a trade. A legitimate way to make a living, not just for a quick buck on the weekend.

Sounds like everyone here has some good input on a lot of things, when it comes to hiring.

As for me/us, I believe you judge people on their work and work ethic. I don't think you can do good work if you don't have a good work ethic, kind of goes hand in hand. Kind of like, how can you do detailed work when your not a detailed person? It's going to show itself just like everything in the dark comes to light...same thing.

So I'll ask all the basic questions. If the guy sputes some good stuff, then grab some material and come work for a day. If I don't like the way you carry the pales...well, you might not last long.

Just like you can tell a professional painter by the way they hold the brush, the way they move or how they handle the spray gun. The subtle things are your clues. All my employees know to treat the customer nicely, but the real answer is: I don't know, you need to talk to Matt (me).

Otherwise if it's a touch-up issue, we do that during touch-up time or just get up the ladder and knock the little spot out quick and be done with it.

Everything else is simple. You steal, your gone. You lie a couple of times, you might need a new job. You disrespect the crew or the client, you'll be gone. You do trashy work or act like you don't care, your gone. Drink or dope on the job, your gone.
You break something or mess up, it comes out of your check.

And I tell everyone just like that, I don't sugar coat things or beat around the bush. Of course everything is within reason, but as a business owner you have to be pretty strict, or else the guys will run the business for you.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:02 PM   #39
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and let me set the record straight ... it's not like i churning out robo painters by the dozen

most work for me 5-6 years before starting out on their own
so you'll only looking at 3-4 companies every 10 years

in a city like Orlando that's a drop in the bucket in competition, so while i might had added 4 companies every 10 years they are well qualified, know the numbers to survive & been a plus to our trade

if you look at the untrained, unskilled, lowballers with a brush who never learned the trade i've only done a small part in helping

.

Sadly, the trades are dying. The race to the bottom is nearing the finish line.

The Home Depot, Lowe's, Wal-mart mentality has taken root. The price vs. quality issue has been settled. We want it now, we want it cheap.

Yeah, there are still some out there that will pay for quality. But like the trades, they're slowly dying off.

Again, I salute you for keeping the trade alive, RPF.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:14 PM   #40
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Sadly, the trades are dying. The race to the bottom is nearing the finish line.

The Home Depot, Lowe's, Wal-mart mentality has taken root. The price vs. quality issue has been settled. We want it now, we want it cheap.

Yeah, there are still some out there that will pay for quality. But like the trades, they're slowly dying off.
I agree to some extent, but also disagree on the other. I see where your coming from on the low-end, trade killing mentality.

But on the other hand, even the hacks aren't cheap. $500 might sound cheap, but if someone just came up to you out of the blue and asked for $500 you'd think that's a lot of money. What's it going towards etc. Not like you drop that kind of money in the grocery parking lot and forget about it.

I think what it comes down to is a lot of uneducated people/homeowners out there. They know virtually nothing about nothing and don't know what's good quality and what isn't. But one thing they do know is that if their going to pay their hard earned money or any good chunk of money in general they want to get a good job done. Not just shell out the money and have the guy run on them.

Yeah you'll have people that look to save a buck and end up getting burned over and over again. But most people learn quickly or just get scared thinking about the "true" cost of getting bad work done.

I always tell my customers these things. I'm not the cheapest or even the fastest, but save $500 now and spend $1,500 later. Better to buy insurance than to not have it...see how much the bill runs then.
Once they hear it from me just like I said it, they tend to think more about the other contractors and if they are trustworthy.
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