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9K views 57 replies 18 participants last post by  PNW Painter 
#1 ·
I struggle with the conflict between function / practicality and image. My van cost $1500, runs like a dream, does everything I need it to... but her body is a little rough. It doesn't accurately reflect my image. But I happily sacrifice that aspect for its functionality.

What really got me thinking about this is I have a builder I'm workng for that mentioned he doesn't like his contractors pulling up to his customer's houses in a beater. [emoji848] He also said I could do one extra job and afford a van payment. I reject that reasoning because to me, it sounds like I'd be busting my ass for overhead. No thanks. My van works for me. I don't work for my van.

The struggle is real. What are your thoughts on customer's perception.


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#3 ·
Ask him if he’d like to buy you a van, otherwise tell him to FO. Who does he think he is to make comments like that? Maybe he can try to put that type of guilt trip on his own employees, but IMO he’s out of line talking to you that way.

Your rigs may not be pristine but they look clean and the one has a nice logo job on it. Maybe, just maybe, consider rattle canning the rust spots on the white one, only to make those areas a little less noticeable, but otherwise - carry on.
 
#4 ·
I could see it if it was a complete disaster, but that yellow one you fixed up looks great and the white van has some fringe rust. It's that simple and it's not that bad.


I'd agree with RH, that it's not his place to whine in this case. If you were showing up in something that was a disaster/accident waiting to happen/why is that wreck on my jobsite/this isn't a dumping ground for scrap metal I'd probably say otherwise. But, it's not the case.


I had the richest guy in town who I do a lot of work for several years ago tell me when I had my old van "Wow, you're van's getting pretty rough. You should buy a new one." or whatever. I knew it was. I also knew I had to wait for the right deal because I could not afford something worth $40k. Or $30 or 20. Told him that as it was just a comfortable conversation. "It's just money Bill." My jaw dropped. This guy is saying this to me when from where I was standing I could see his corvette, 3 Lexus, brand new big pickup truck which he uses for minor dump runs.


Anyhoo, I wouldn't sweat it with this guy. He's still hiring you and probably still will. You'll upgrade when you can and that's your decision. My newer work van is actually 5 years older than my old work van but it lived in Florida for most of it's life and was perfectly maintained and I've known the old owner for over half my life. Not a spot of rust (yet) because it never saw road salt until I got it. It was just the right deal at the right time.

I remember when you got that yellow van. I think it looks pretty awesome.
 
#5 ·
From what I can tell, if you would cover the rust on the white van, It would look downright respectable. You may be able to get plastic panels that are specific to the van and cover the rust. Or cheaper yet just bondo it and spray the entire bottom 6" of the van black, like the yellow van. Black won't show the rust as much when it starts again.

The yellow van actually looks OK in the pic. Obviously it would look better if the quarter panel were yellow.

What the GC wants is his prerogative. I understand where he is coming from. If you do a lot of work for him, it may pay to put a little into your van. If you can afford to lose him as a customer, then I guess the van can stay as is.
 
#6 ·
It doesn’t look bad (yet), but thinking long-term, you may eventually need to think about a plan for your next vehicle. Why not think about a newer vehicle sooner than later, one that will set you up for the next ten years or so? Higher-end clientele will appreciate that you make them look good parking in their cobblestone driveway. May pay for itself in increased demand, or if demand is already high, raise rates to pay for a necessary work expense.
 
#8 ·
I wanted to open for discussion a couple other thoughts...

Being in the painting industry is a little different than some other fields, partially because it is a service industry that deals frequently in cosmetic improvements. What message does it send when a painter’s vehicle starts to show its age? It is possibly the most important aspect about you that the general public sees, sometime the only thing it sees. It is very effective advertising (one way or the other).

Another things to consider is that your vehicle is tax deductible (depreciable).
And, practically speaking, I do not like older vehicles, because I don’t have time to deal with repairs. When my vehicle starts needing repairs, I start shopping for a new (used) vehicle.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Some observations:

1. If the builder is hiring you directly, they have the right to demand a particular aesthetic that compliments their team.

2. Aesthetics often has more leverage and influence than actual substance in today's society, and can actually offset deficiencies in performance.

3. Unfortunately, the working class has access to more than they ever had before in terms of acquiring new and even luxury items, thanks to very liber...I mean lenient lending practices. This phenomena has enabled a more critical eye for our culture's aesthetic expectations.

Bottom line, if you want to compete, be clean and neat.
 
#10 ·
While you can't really ask the builder to buy you the new van he thinks you should have, ask him if he's okay with you charging more- since you've taken on a truck note at his request.

Everybody's different. Some HO's might look at the old vans and be pleased with your prices because you're not charging to support your truck note habit. Others might think think: "What the Hell am I paying for??!!" You can't help what people think and, it's pretty clear that some folks can't help what they think either!
 
#11 ·
It's hard to change a van that runs good and you know all it's problems. My last company van had 600,000kms on it before I got rid of it. It did have less rust on it then yours but the tranny went and I figured it was time. I wouldn't replace your vans until something big goes on them. They still look decent. You may want to paint that white fender to match the yellow though.
 
#15 ·
Tell the builder that if he is willing to double what he is paying you then you would be more than happy to buy a new van. That should shut him up.
 
#17 ·
If i could get what SW is getting for a gallon of paint, i'd be driving a new Volvo wagon instead of a 2001 with 250,000 miles on it.
 
#18 ·
Here’s how you do it:
Increase your typical retail price by 45%, then offer an amazing sale once a month, telling customers that pant is on sale for 40% ‘for a limited time only’. Meanwhile, tell the Contractors that since they receive a 15% discount “all the time” they are not eligible for the 40% off sale. You should have your new Volvo in no time!
 
#20 ·
Just my personal opinion. I have been in business here in Phoenix for 24 years. I have done hospitals - hotels - Air Force bases and houses. The thing that always matters most is your quality of work. Sure do not go inside a house looking like an idiot with holes in your pants and a t-shirt that says Marijuana rules but who gives a flip what you drive we are painters not investment bankers. Sometimes I drive my 2002 Dodge Cargo van with 400 gallons of paint ovespray on the outside or I drive my newer 2017 truck either way nobody cares and if they do then your working for the wrong type of person.
I have dealt with US Government liason - state officials for jobs and I have 20 tattoos on my arms - earrings in both ears and look like a surf bum. Get my point.
 
#21 ·
I grew up in the trades when looking like you crawled out of a mine was a badge of honor. But with today's sophisticated approach to business via the crisp internet, along with society's appearance expectations (Because everyone has access to everything shiny after all) there tends to be little tolerance for appearance defects.


I mean, if I can lease that Mercedes 450 on a gardeners income there's no reason you shouldn't either. Besides, I just got my driveway paved and the last thing I want is a beater on it.
 
#27 · (Edited)
For what it’s worth, I never thought about my image too much until the following happened.
Two years ago I was meeting potential clients for a large job. Since then, I’ve not only done the original job but a few more rooms in their home. We’ve become friendly and comfortable around each other.

Anyway,I don’t remember what we were talking about but he said, “ We knew you were going to be cheap when you pulled up in that Corolla.”

Yes, for a about a year or so I was driving my daughter’s old Corolla because I couldn’t afford a newer car at the time. It was right when used car prices spiked. Also, I needed a vehicle that could accommodate a scaffold and I didn’t want a panel van. Larger vehicles that aren’t vans were getting more difficult to find.

Anyway that statement has always stuck
with me. To be honest it was kind of hurtful.
 
#33 ·
Yikes. I could see the connotations and denotations of that being hurtful to a woman. If any of us guys were told that, we'd probably laugh it off thinking they were being funny but, it could be considered rude. On a commercial one day, the tenant was a very nice, attractive woman. She looked over the job and said what people always say but never mean: "I need you at my house!" And for some reason I blurted out: "You can't afford us".

She laughed nervously like she was wondering how I meant that. I was wondering too because I knew it sounded mean and I didn't mean for it too. So I quickly said: "Because our boss says we're priceless!" That got a better laugh and everything was fine.
 
#28 · (Edited)
A vehicles image isnt that important. Hell, you caughed up some bucks for the logo.... You dont have offensive bumper stickers.... so what? Your personal appearence is what counts, and even then, mostly for the first time you meet with the client.

If it aint belching black smoke, leaking tons of oil, and bumping rap loud enough to wake up the neighborhood, it doesnt matter. I do high end jobs all the time.
 
#29 ·
Im gonna add one more thing to this thread: I see construction people with brand new escalades "so and so painting" and I think to myself "That person is obviously an overcharging douche, and I would not hire that person out of spite alone.

Rich people arent stupid. They know damn well a good percentage of their check is going to pay for that dudes penis extension while he sends his broke ass crew with their beaters to actually do the work for him.

Your van is perfect, not too crappy, but still obviously a work vehicle.
 
#34 ·
Haha! The A hole contractor at Lowe's with their 70k truck and talking on the phone is a classic example.

Through trial and error I have found that if I show up without any paint on my clothes to do an estimate - 90% of the time I don't get the job!

My Wife is a GM for a franchise Restaurant and they won't let her hire people if they are missing teeth or have purple hair etc.
 
#30 ·
It is true that your personal song and dance will sell the deal in the end and it really does not make much of a difference if you show up for an estimate in white's or a button down shirt but image matters.Do you smell like cigarettes,do you have a command of the english language, meaning grammar and vocabulary, can you put together a complete sentence.I have always had a well kept vehicle, not always brand new but clean and maintained with, and this is very important, professional signs on them. Of course being ruggedly good looking has always helped. My daughters always make snide comments about that last part.
 
#32 ·
Well, the question in the OP is what are our thoughts about customer perception. Personally, I don't judge a man by what he owns. The reality of customer perception can be quite different. More often than not, the vehicle is a factor. The world is a cold hard place and that is one of its unjust dictates.
 
#35 ·
If I asked 90% of my clients what brand or color vehicles I owned, they couldn’t tell me, nor would they care..

A positive self image carries a lot more weight in how clients perceive us, overshadowing images and perceptions that others might have solely based on the vehicles we drive.

I’ve had more clients comment on my shoes, a nice watch, my work duds, or even a buzz-cut when attending site meetings, and paying no attention to the vehicles I drive.

I’m often asked by one of my architect clients when attending office sit-downs with new prospectives, all of whom are billionaires, to wear work duds and not civies, everyone liking that Bohemian artsy grit/hands-on-wood appearance when selling a client on finishing.

I travel 100 miles/day with my work, and my only three vehicle priorities ranking in descending order are function/utility, reliability, and personal comfort. The rest isn’t important to me or to those I work for.

Although having some pretty sweet work rides earlier in my career, I can’t recall anybody ever saying, wow, what a great work truck you have, or hiring me based on the image a vehicle might portray.

Best is to keep on keeping it real..
 
#38 ·
If a painting contractor is successfully working out of a horse and buggy, who gives a crap.

And there it is ,in that one sentence. It's what works for you. Just like there are painters who have great success (both personal and financial) doing maintenance work vs. high end work, there are painters that that enjoy success regardless of vehicles and other appearances. It's what works for the individual and makes you happy.

I've given my thoughts on the matter, and there have been a lot of other ideas bandied about. I will say that I would rate vehicles as number three on the list of compliments I've received over the years. The only thing that would rate above that would be the quality of work and dependability/honesty. And these are much more important than your ride.
 
#37 ·
I am 65 now and have experienced this image **** my whole life. I have never had a desire to keep up with the Jones or keep a list of who I was going to have lunch with. I was raised poor and blue collar. I got educated and had white collar jobs that I hated. In the mid 80's during the Olympics I lived in West Los Angeles. Had a perimeter office on the 20th floor of the Tishman building on Wilshire Blvd over looking UCLA and Westwood. I had a parking space with my name on it. At 30 years I thought to myself that I have arrived.

All the other Executives drove BMW's or a Porche. I drove a Datsun Stanza. I only lasted two years in this position. I really didn't like white collar and preferred to be on the frontline. In the 90's I started acquiring distressed real estate and fixing it up. My part is the painting and minor carpentry. I have had crews on and off through the years and have done well. I generally keep things clean and neat as far as vehicles and am pretty darn frugal. There is a happy medium here but I am with @Woodco if its too fancy then better watch out. My advice is find the appearance and quality of work you are comfortable with and roll with it. I guarantee you will have plenty of customers if you do quality work. Create your own image and show them that you the best painter they will ever hire.
 
#39 ·
One of my favorite customers of all time was a guy who drove an ancient Mercedes diesel station wagon to pick up paint for his painter. He volunteered to run errands for the paint crew painting a house he had bought. One day his brother, who was a "high end" painting contractor came in, and after talking to him i find out the guy driving the 400,000 mile Mercedes was a huge multi-millionaire! He had developed software that he sold to Qualcomm. He had bought a house in La Jolla for $3,000,000 and was rehabbing it before he moved in. He was one of those rich people that are smart enough to know the guy driving the Escalade was probably over charging him!

And i know the crew that painted Janet Jackson's house didn't have any particularly nice looking vehicles! Sometimes it just depends on if they just want to impress people with their money or if they just want the job done correctly.
 
#44 ·
I actually had a customer pulled over by security and had the police called on him because he "didn't look like he should be there". He was in a 7 month old Ford van with his nice logo and everything on it. After being harassed for an hour he called his client up and told him he should hire someone else that "looked right" to paint in his neighborhood. Coincidentally, he was a black man! They wouldn't get away with that crap today, that's for sure! It was in Muirfield, a Columbus suburb in case anyone wants to work there!
 
#41 · (Edited)
This subject isn't really about the working class being pressured by the upper class to maintain a particular appearance. Service people have always been expected to look grubby to the snobs. This is really about working class peers who have elevated their own snobbery and aesthetic expectations by nature of accessibility to all things blingy, and now expect a certain degree of squaredawayness from everyone else.


So as a consequence, what once was a simple little and expected rust on an older vehicle, now appears more like a spaghetti stain on someone's clean white shirt at an upscale restaurant. Unacceptible to a lot of these shake and bake entrepreneurs.
 
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