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Old 07-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #1
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I was checking out some of the websites listed on this forum. I think it was George Z's that referenced NAPP (www.thenapp.com). Is it worth the fee to join? Is so, what are some of the benefits you gained (or didn't) by joining? It looks there are 3 different packages. Thanks for any feedback.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:15 PM   #2
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I can't believe no one has commented on this thread...I am holding my comments until the die hards chime in!
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:20 PM   #3
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I can't believe no one has commented on this thread...I am holding my comments until the die hards chime in!
Maybe people are being polite. Do a search, this has been talked about before. The best thing I heard about it (and any other site/organization) is that it is worthwhile IF you are going to use the systems and information presented.

If you are looking for that kind of stuff, don't forget "out of the bucket" and PDCA.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:22 PM   #4
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Maybe people are being polite. Do a search, this has been talked about before. The best thing I heard about it (and any other site/organization) is that it is worthwhile IF you are going to use the systems and information presented.

If you are looking for that kind of stuff, don't forget "out of the bucket" and PDCA.
I was looking at these while you posted that!
https://www.painttalk.com/f4/napp-3348/
https://www.painttalk.com/f2/napp-web-site-3905/
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:24 PM   #5
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http://www.outofthebucket.com/
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:55 PM   #6
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Well as long as we are posting links, this is the latest one I am finding useful
http://www.filthyrichcontractor.com/public/main.cfm
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:14 PM   #7
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I'll take that as sarcasm Aaron - Don't take that as a dig so much as it is an agreement (if it was). There are get rich quick schemes aimed at a lot of different target audiences. This isn't a dig at Brian either - I just have never had much time for those types of sales sites. I have never heard of anybody bettering themselves from places like that apart from maybe picking a few tips up here and there.

Trade associations, as long as they offer certain things, aren't a bad thing but they are different to the 'run a business and increase your sales' sites.

If you're looking at a trade association then you need to look at what it has to offer and if it offers what you need. A good one will offer you the opportunity to network with other contractors. They wil offer a mediation service and also a legally binding independant arbitration service for you and your clients. The more resources they offer the better. Some will give you exclusive discounts for things like insurance and the likes.

One thing to remember when joining a trade association is that if they don't take up references about you and physically come to your current and previous job sites to examine your work then they aren't really worth it - You're probably signing up to a membership that is full of every tom, **** and harry.

You're doing the right thing by asking about them before you sign on the line. I would've broadened the question to something like "Which is the best trade association and why"?; rather than asking about a specific one.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:26 PM   #8
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I'll take that as sarcasm Aaron - Don't take that as a dig so much as it is an agreement (if it was). There are get rich quick schemes aimed at a lot of different target audiences. This isn't a dig at Brian either - I just have never had much time for those types of sales sites. I have never heard of anybody bettering themselves from places like that apart from maybe picking a few tips up here and there.

Trade associations, as long as they offer certain things, aren't a bad thing but they are different to the 'run a business and increase your sales' sites.

If you're looking at a trade association then you need to look at what it has to offer and if it offers what you need. A good one will offer you the opportunity to network with other contractors. They wil offer a mediation service and also a legally binding independant arbitration service for you and your clients. The more resources they offer the better. Some will give you exclusive discounts for things like insurance and the likes.

One thing to remember when joining a trade association is that if they don't take up references about you and physically come to your current and previous job sites to examine your work then they aren't really worth it - You're probably signing up to a membership that is full of every tom, **** and harry.

You're doing the right thing by asking about them before you sign on the line. I would've broadened the question to something like "Which is the best trade association and why"?; rather than asking about a specific one.


OK - which is the best and why? And this is why I love this forum. Serious, thanks for the feedback on NAPP. When I started out I might have invested in something like this. Thinking a $100 + bucks is worth the trial and error. But, damn those lil old $100 bucks+ will nickle dime your ass to death. Hence, I've come to the experts. Plus, like I stated earlier, I saw their logo on GZ's site. I've come to really like and respect his biz model and how he runs it (I've got to preface that with: I only "know" about his stuff through this board.) Thanks, again for the insight.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:29 PM   #9
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NAPP and "out of the bucket" both give you help setting up systems, sales, and estimating. I would think (but don't know) your franchise would provide all that. If so, it would be a waste of you money.
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Last edited by bikerboy; 07-16-2009 at 06:59 PM..
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:38 PM   #10
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NAPP and "out of the bucket" both give you help setting up systems, sales, and estimating. I would think (but don't know) you franchise would provide all that. If so, it would be a waste of you money.
Yea - you are right. The franchise does provide the same stuff (maybe not the same methods). I was hoping it held some weight. Where putting that association's logo on my ad material would gain some additional credibility. Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:42 PM   #11
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NAPP and "out of the bucket" both give you help setting up systems, sales, and estimating. I would think (but don't know) you franchise would provide all that. If so, it would be a waste of you money.

Sorry, I mistook NAPP for a trade association. Their name is misleading. Still, I think I would rather invest in a good association rather than a systems web site. I'm not a member of any. Imho, they're overpriced and I don't think one could benefit me much. Maybe if I wanted to 'validate' my credentals to gain custom or to give my customers some piece of mind but I don't think they are a bad thing. I think they can be particularly beneficial to new businesses.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:51 PM   #12
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Sorry, I mistook NAPP for a trade association. Their name is misleading. Still, I think I would rather invest in a good association rather than a systems web site. I'm not a member of any. Imho, they're overpriced and I don't think one could benefit me much. Maybe if I wanted to 'validate' my credentals to gain custom or to give my customers some piece of mind but I don't think they are a bad thing. I think they can be particularly beneficial to new businesses.

Initially, I thought NAPP was a trade association (that what the "A" in NAPP stands for for). But it obviously was a misrepresentation. The PDCA seems like it might be beneficial but I don't think we are ready for that type of investment - yet. The networking could be worthwhile if we were a big enough outfit. Think I will stick with the local chamber.
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:03 PM   #13
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Customers don't know the difference. I am a member of NAPP, got some worthwhile stuff from it, but I don't think it is what you need.

For the less money I'd get Brian's "Out of the bucket" system.

These are great for people trying to build efficient running businesses. If you already know what you are doing, it is a waste. If you are struggling because you are a good painter, but not a good business man, it is worth a look.
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:50 PM   #14
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I don't think you can have too much businesss education.
As far as the PDCA goes, if you are only thinking what you are going to get out of it, you will get nothing. It depends how much you get involved.
I have not been active in NAPP for a while now, I don't know of it's current state. I can say that I got most of my business knowledge from it
and Mark H. I used some of Brian's systems too, I think they are useful.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooledUp View Post
I'll take that as sarcasm Aaron - Don't take that as a dig so much as it is an agreement (if it was). There are get rich quick schemes aimed at a lot of different target audiences. This isn't a dig at Brian either - I just have never had much time for those types of sales sites. I have never heard of anybody bettering themselves from places like that apart from maybe picking a few tips up here and there.

Trade associations, as long as they offer certain things, aren't a bad thing but they are different to the 'run a business and increase your sales' sites.

If you're looking at a trade association then you need to look at what it has to offer and if it offers what you need. A good one will offer you the opportunity to network with other contractors. They wil offer a mediation service and also a legally binding independant arbitration service for you and your clients. The more resources they offer the better. Some will give you exclusive discounts for things like insurance and the likes.

One thing to remember when joining a trade association is that if they don't take up references about you and physically come to your current and previous job sites to examine your work then they aren't really worth it - You're probably signing up to a membership that is full of every tom, **** and harry.

You're doing the right thing by asking about them before you sign on the line. I would've broadened the question to something like "Which is the best trade association and why"?; rather than asking about a specific one.
No I am not being sarcastic! Don't let the name fool you. There is some fantastic information in the club section. I would advise just signing up for the newsletter for awhile to get a feel for what these guys can offer. I am very big on getting as much business insight as I can take in. I belong to PDCA, PDCA Residential Forum, NAPP, FRC,and spent some time on Brian's Out of the Bucket just to name a few. Most of them just reinforce for me that the systems and business practice I am currently employing are actually sound
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:08 PM   #16
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No I am not being sarcastic! Don't let the name fool you. There is some fantastic information in the club section. I would advise just signing up for the newsletter for awhile to get a feel for what these guys can offer. I am very big on getting as much business insight as I can take in. I belong to PDCA, PDCA Residential Forum, NAPP, FRC,and spent some time on Brian's Out of the Bucket just to name a few. Most of them just reinforce for me that the systems and business practice I am currently employing are actually sound
Good point. This is what I like about this forum. There are no silver bullets. Anything and everything that most folks say is not revolutionary. But, most points made are, really, just reminders of what we should be doing. I think, for the most part, biz models are relatively the same. It is a matter of walkin' the walk vs. talkin' the talk. In other words, get off your ass and do what needs to be done.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:20 PM   #17
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There are numerous good points in this thread. There is no silver bullet, unless the Lone Ranger starts some kind of business coaching.

I've used resources and information from a lot of people and organizations, including NAPP, PDCA, and CCN. All were beneficial in one way or another. Often, a point made by one wasn't clear and it took a different perspective from one of the others for me to get it.

As George Z says, we can't have too much business education. If I spend $100 to get an idea that makes me $500, I consider that a good investment. If it makes me $5,000 it is a very good investment.

A long time ago I learned that we create most of our own opportunities through education. The more we learn, the more opportunities we have. And then we can build on those opportunities as we take advantage of them and create bigger and better opportunities--it becomes an exponential improvement.

Brian Phillips
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