18th Century Door Refinishing - Page 2 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2014, 08:47 AM   #21
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 10,539
Rewards Points: 840
Thanks: 11,620
Thanked 10,458 Times in 5,722 Posts
View Gough's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstertruck View Post

I thought it looked like the early stages of what's going on in pic #3 of the OP. Especially on the 2nd band below the detail.

Unless, of course you're pulling my chain.....
Who, me??
__________________
“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.” – Henry David Thoreau
Gough is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-01-2014, 08:23 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I've gotten to know this fellow pretty well over the past few days. I like him, but his personal hygiene isn't the best. So, I brushed his teeth and gave him a bath (in thinner)


This door is from a later period than the front doors, mid 19'th century. Its almost ready for finish.
Attached Thumbnails
18th Century Door Refinishing-image-3283448625.jpg  

18th Century Door Refinishing-image-4232771241.jpg  

18th Century Door Refinishing-image-2920571223.jpg  

18th Century Door Refinishing-image-3918559467.jpg  

Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jmayspaint For This Useful Post:
CApainter (08-01-2014), slinger58 (08-03-2014)
Old 08-01-2014, 09:37 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,425
Rewards Points: 250
Thanks: 371
Thanked 1,034 Times in 554 Posts
View Painter-Aaron's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I want those doors. Could you imagine having those bad boys on your house? Way better than fancy TVs and cars
Painter-Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Painter-Aaron For This Useful Post:
journeymanPainter (08-01-2014), slinger58 (08-03-2014)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-01-2014, 10:15 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
I've gotten to know this fellow pretty well over the past few days. I like him, but his personal hygiene isn't the best. So, I brushed his teeth and gave him a bath (in thinner)


This door is from a later period than the front doors, mid 19'th century. Its almost ready for finish.
Yeah Baby!
You cleaned that up nice!
Not my style, but the detail is awesome!!!
Can't wait to see the finished product.
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Monstertruck For This Useful Post:
Jmayspaint (08-01-2014)
Old 08-01-2014, 10:52 PM   #25
Dry as Rye
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 497
Rewards Points: 340
Thanks: 149
Thanked 242 Times in 151 Posts
View Csheils's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Doors look great.

Curiosity. How would one remove the fastener stains in wood like that?


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Csheils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:00 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Csheils
Doors look great.

Curiosity. How would one remove the fastener stains in wood like that?

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com

I was wondering if an Oxalic acid would do it. It usually does pretty good with rust stains.
Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:31 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
I don't know yet exactly. The checking at the top below the details, didn't appear to be so bad until it was stripped.

My first thought was to partially fill the less drastic checking with several coats of Sikkens L&S, and perhaps use an epoxy filer in places around the bottoms. But, the customer isn't buying into the Sikkens idea. She saw it used somewhere else and thinks it looks "plasticky and fake". They want to use Old Masters and Mccloskeys Man-O-War spar. Stain color will likely be special walnut.

Some of the worst checking was previously filled with what looks like a dark urethane caulk.

I would appreciate any suggestions for a filler.
I've used this filler on projects that were painted. I see they have pigmen available for tinting on projects to be stained.
http://www.abatron.com/buildingandre...intenance.html


Looks like Old Masters has some putty sticks that would match the stain you're using and fill the smaller cracks.
http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...utty-stick.htm

Are you comfortable with the finishing products the HO has requested?
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 09:35 AM   #28
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 10,539
Rewards Points: 840
Thanks: 11,620
Thanked 10,458 Times in 5,722 Posts
View Gough's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstertruck View Post
I've used this filler on projects that were painted. I see they have pigmen available for tinting on projects to be stained.
http://www.abatron.com/buildingandre...intenance.html


Looks like Old Masters has some putty sticks that would match the stain you're using and fill the smaller cracks.
http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...utty-stick.htm

Are you comfortable with the finishing products the HO has requested?
I'd certainly press for an alternative to spar...unless you really want steady work. They thing Sikkens looks plasticky and fake, but want to use spar??? I have a hunch they've only seen Sikkens overdone.

I'd steer them towards using Sikkens Door and Window...and not filling the cracks. They are amazing old doors, let them be old doors. The huge advantage of the Sikkens is in the maintenance.
__________________
“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.” – Henry David Thoreau
Gough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 09:41 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I've never been a big fan of allowing HO's to select products without consultation.
My initial response is 'well, that looks like some good stuff, but I've never used it, so I will not guarantee it.' Then put it in writing.

I sort of like the idea of leaving the checking for character.
As long as they can be sealed properly to prevent further damage.
I hope there is some sort of stoop protecting these from the weather.
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Monstertruck For This Useful Post:
fauxlynn (08-03-2014)
Old 08-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstertruck
I've used this filler on projects that were painted. I see they have pigmen available for tinting on projects to be stained.
http://www.abatron.com/buildingandre...intenance.html

Looks like Old Masters has some putty sticks that would match the stain you're using and fill the smaller cracks.
http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...utty-stick.htm

Are you comfortable with the finishing products the HO has requested?

That filler system seems to be in the same product family as the Smith's CPS recommended earlier in the thread, and the End Rot system that I was looking at. They all seem to be geared toward restoring wood that has started to rot by first applying an epoxy hardener, then the filler. The fillers seem to be designed to bond best when the hardener is used first, though a guy at BM that I trust thinks the End Rot filler would work well on its own.

The wood that the front doors are made of is....weird. It's not tight grained, in fact the grain is rather large. But it is probably the hardest wood I have ever encountered. Even down towards the bottoms, the wood shows no signs of rot, it's hard as a rock already.

After some sampling and further discussion, I think I'm going to get my way on the Sikkens, except I'll use the 123 system instead of L&S. I agree that the L&S can look different than traditional penetrating stains, it doesn't penetrate as deeply. The Cetol 1 is a penetrator, so I can get the richer look and still have the high solids I want in the 23. I'll use the Mccloskeys on the back door.
Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 10:07 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
That filler system seems to be in the same product family as the Smith's CPS recommended earlier in the thread, and the End Rot system that I was looking at. They all seem to be geared toward restoring wood that has started to rot by first applying an epoxy hardener, then the filler. The fillers seem to be designed to bond best when the hardener is used first, though a guy at BM that I trust thinks the End Rot filler would work well on its own.

The wood that the front doors are made of is....weird. It's not tight grained, in fact the grain is rather large. But it is probably the hardest wood I have ever encountered. Even down towards the bottoms, the wood shows no signs of rot, it's hard as a rock already.

After some sampling and further discussion, I think I'm going to get my way on the Sikkens, except I'll use the 123 system instead of L&S. I agree that the L&S can look different than traditional penetrating stains, it doesn't penetrate as deeply. The Cetol 1 is a penetrator, so I can get the richer look and still have the high solids I want in the 23. I'll use the Mccloskeys on the back door.
That's how I've always done it, with good results. I think both the hardener and filler would impact how the surrounding wood accepts the stain. Unfortunately, I've only done painted projects with these fillers.

Looking forward to finished pics! :rubs hands with glee:
Might make for some great marketing material on your web site as well.
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 11:14 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gough

I'd certainly press for an alternative to spar...unless you really want steady work. They thing Sikkens looks plasticky and fake, but want to use spar??? I have a hunch they've only seen Sikkens overdone.

I'd steer them towards using Sikkens Door and Window...and not filling the cracks. They are amazing old doors, let them be old doors. The huge advantage of the Sikkens is in the maintenance.

I would Really hate to put spar on the front doors. They are on the south west side of the house, and even though they do sit back in a recess, they get sun all afternoon. The back door only gets a few hrs of morning sun, so it shouldn't be too bad if maintained regularly. They already have the Mccloskeys, so using it on the back door only is a good compromise.

Crack filling is going to be minimal. Sanding has reduced the checking a great deal already. I'll probably only fill some of the deeper cracks at the bottoms, and build up a few corners that are chipped. I did a test area with Minwax epoxy filler with some sanding dust from the doors mixed in. I'm sure I'll have to get creative to blend in the filled spots, but they will be small.
Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jmayspaint For This Useful Post:
Gough (08-02-2014)
Old 08-02-2014, 06:30 PM   #33
Dry as Rye
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 497
Rewards Points: 340
Thanks: 149
Thanked 242 Times in 151 Posts
View Csheils's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
I was wondering if an Oxalic acid would do it. It usually does pretty good with rust stains.

Same here. Open to suggestions.


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Csheils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 06:52 PM   #34
Dry as Rye
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 497
Rewards Points: 340
Thanks: 149
Thanked 242 Times in 151 Posts
View Csheils's Photo Album My Photos
Default

And what's wrong with using spar?


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Csheils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:04 PM   #35
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 10,539
Rewards Points: 840
Thanks: 11,620
Thanked 10,458 Times in 5,722 Posts
View Gough's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Csheils View Post
And what's wrong with using spar?


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
In exposed locations, it's a maintenance headache. For unprotected doors and trim around here, we recommend sanding and re-coating at least once a year, preferably twice. For doors as elaborate as those in the OP, the result of deferring that maintenance is obvious.

That's why we encourage clients to use something like Sikkens Door and Window for those applications.
__________________
“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.” – Henry David Thoreau
Gough is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gough For This Useful Post:
Jmayspaint (08-02-2014), Monstertruck (08-02-2014)
Old 08-02-2014, 09:06 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Csheils
And what's wrong with using spar?

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com

It can be fine if its done regularly and doesn't get too much sun. But I've found that it doesn't hold up to UVs nearly as well as the Sikkens. Spar tends to get brittle and crack in a fairly short time in high exposure areas, and it happens fast.
It can look fine after a year, then all the sudden within a few weeks or a month it will start to crack. Once that happens, the underlying stain fades quickly and your back to stripping.

The back door that I'm working on now had failed spar on it when I started. Even though it only gets morning sun, it had been neglected too long and was completely cracked and peeled on the exposed areas.
Attached Thumbnails
18th Century Door Refinishing-image-3583783447.jpg  

Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jmayspaint For This Useful Post:
Gough (08-03-2014), journeymanPainter (08-04-2014)
Old 08-02-2014, 09:10 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Hampshah
Posts: 938
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 445
Thanked 643 Times in 432 Posts
View Monstertruck's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
It can be fine if its done regularly and doesn't get too much sun. But I've found that it doesn't hold up to UVs nearly as well as the Sikkens. Spar tends to get brittle and crack in a fairly short time in high exposure areas, and it happens fast.
It can look fine after a year, then all the sudden within a few weeks or a month it will start to crack. Once that happens, the underlying stain fades quickly and your back to stripping.

The back door that I'm working on now had failed spar on it when I started. Even though it only gets morning sun, it had been neglected too long and was completely cracked and peeled on the exposed areas.
Gough & JMays got it right. Spar is a maintenance headache. Once it goes, the ensuing prep is just a PITA.
Monstertruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 935
Rewards Points: 1,608
Thanks: 670
Thanked 635 Times in 394 Posts
View paintball head's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Csheils View Post
Same here. Open to suggestions.


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Those are tough to get rid of. I have had success with naval jelly before where it cleared up some stains great and other projects where it didn't have any effect at all. It is worth a shot though IMHO.
paintball head is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to paintball head For This Useful Post:
Jmayspaint (08-04-2014)
Old 08-03-2014, 06:40 PM   #39
Dry as Rye
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 497
Rewards Points: 340
Thanks: 149
Thanked 242 Times in 151 Posts
View Csheils's Photo Album My Photos
Default

So spar needs maintenance. But in that regard, it does not differ from other coatings.

Clears are easy to apply, although I wouldn't want to be re-applying biannually to doors like those.

Is that the general consensus?


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Csheils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 07:58 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,253
Rewards Points: 14
Thanks: 1,875
Thanked 3,731 Times in 1,918 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I grabbed some Naval jelly from the shop this morning, think I'll give it a try. Never used it on wood before.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on using Oxalic acid on wood that old? Or even just on hardwoods like mahogany? It seems to be most effective on softer woods like cedar. I still think it might be worth a shot, a strong mix and a scrub might help.
Jmayspaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refinishing a front door SeaMonster General Painting Discussion 19 07-24-2013 10:14 PM
Antique colonial Argentinian door refinishing help! JonM Surface Preparation and Application 15 04-07-2013 08:46 PM
Refinishing a garage door with Sikkens Cetol 123 videos AustinPainter Photos of Project and Equipment 6 08-28-2011 01:28 AM
Into the 20th century! RCP Photos of Project and Equipment 9 08-23-2009 10:49 PM
refinishing garage door ogre Surface Preparation and Application 1 06-08-2009 03:03 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com