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Old 06-18-2011, 05:01 PM   #1
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Default adopting new product systems

Just curious if you guys find something here on PT or anywhere that you find worthy of trying .... how much time do you give the new product and or system a try?

Like a brush for example... a few loads or a few days with the brush?

For me new product tends to get a fair shake because I want to know what it sucks at and also what it does good. As far as systems, they tend to always be ongoing and I think largely in part because of unexpected product changes (for the worse) that always seem to be like a wrench thrown in the spokes.

Just curious.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
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On avg, a couple of months on both. Some things emerge as winners or losers immediately but most products and processes take some time to explore, as you know.

Btw, I'll call you back soon...



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Old 06-18-2011, 06:42 PM   #3
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On avg, a couple of months on both. Some things emerge as winners or losers immediately but most products and processes take some time to explore, as you know.

Btw, I'll call you back soon...
Thanks Scott. I'm becoming a little discouraged with product lately. Just dropped 5 products from my top 19 that changed the way we do things. Runner ups? So-so.

Why does it seem almost every product I give high ratings turns into something worthy of the trash can?

Are other people's favs going south too?
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:48 PM   #4
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Thanks Scott. I'm becoming a little discouraged with product lately. Just dropped 5 products from my top 19 that changed the way we do things. Runner ups? So-so.

Why does it seem almost every product I give high ratings turns into something worthy of the trash can?

Are other people's favs going south too?
A lot of my favorites went South years ago when the so called "dripless" paints come out. I find most of the crap out there today to be like corn syrup and messy as all hell. We didn't have that problem years ago...
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:05 PM   #5
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Thanks Scott. I'm becoming a little discouraged with product lately. Just dropped 5 products from my top 19 that changed the way we do things. Runner ups? So-so.

Why does it seem almost every product I give high ratings turns into something worthy of the trash can?

Are other people's favs going south too?
Jack

Great post.

We have a few of those products. I look at it like the manager of a baseball team. "Those" products are like closers. We count on them to shut down opposing offenses in the toughest situations. They won't be 100% effective 100% of the time. There are just too many variables for it to be that scientific. That's my take on it.



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Old 06-19-2011, 03:26 AM   #6
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I used to have a box for nothing but failed or unused products. Lol....for some reason, gadgets and products just sorta gathered in this one box.

My box of failed or didn't pan out or were junk products, lol.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:14 AM   #7
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Normally use them for some time. Somethings are a turd out of the box and no matter how much time you give them, they will always be a turd.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Harry

A lot of my favorites went South years ago when the so called "dripless" paints come out. I find most of the crap out there today to be like corn syrup and messy as all hell. We didn't have that problem years ago...
Thanks Harry. I've been seeing some very strange things with paint lately, drastic changes. I think corn syrup or molasses is a good word.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:47 AM   #9
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Normally use them for some time. Somethings are a turd out of the box and no matter how much time you give them, they will always be a turd.
True, some take only a moment to figure out. My favorite brush of all time doesn't get a second look these days and that brush was used for years and years without ever experiencing any issues. I dont recognize the brush today.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:51 AM   #10
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Jack

Great post.

We have a few of those products. I look at it like the manager of a baseball team. "Those" products are like closers. We count on them to shut down opposing offenses in the toughest situations. They won't be 100% effective 100% of the time. There are just too many variables for it to be that scientific. That's my take on it.
I find myself comparing paint with produce from the grocery store. You know the grocery store sells good lettuce because you bought it there many times but all of a sudden the lettuce isnt looking so good this week so you run across the street to the other place. Later you find yourself back at your grocery store and the lettuce is good again that week.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:22 AM   #11
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Jack what do you think the reason good products goind to crap??? regulation or company going to cheaper materials?? what do you think.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:32 AM   #12
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Jack

There are just too many variables for it to be that scientific. That's my take on it.
Absolutely.

The variables. It takes a very long time to work through the variables. I'm running some tests with trim whites now. We're messing with colorant formulations quite a bit trying to get good hide. Then there's the substrate - new, primed, over latex?, over enamel?, over oil?, clean, dirty. Same finish but where are you painting? In the same room the crown area can be 15-20 degrees warmer than the baseboard...does it matter? Maybe. Do you go with a 3/8 or a 1/4 roller - wow what a difference.

Getting the right combination can be cumbersome and I'll admit abandoning some products before getting enough info to find what really works. Then the paint co's can mess with the product and everything starts all over - and that's just paint.

We need labs for this stuff.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:43 AM   #13
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Jack what do you think the reason good products goind to crap??? regulation or company going to cheaper materials?? what do you think.
I think its, regulation, cheaper materials, cut backs, quality control issues and inconsistent raw materials to name a few. Like a farmers good crop of tomatoes or corn on this side of the street, not so much on the other. I like cantaloupe and I am always surprised how different my purchases are from one to the next. I see the same with paint, rollers, brushes etc.

What stumps me the most is when a company makes the decision to change a product knowing they are taking a product that sells itself and taking those selling characteristics away from the consumer.

What do they really think is going to happen with the committed buyers? They go away - end of commitment and loyalty. See ya! Now your product is costing me money to use. Makes no sense to me at all.

I am one of those people who lock on to product that sells itself. Say no more, I'm sold. Its those products that save me time on the job and its also the very reason I go to great lengths to find those niche time saver products test the hell out of them and get committed and promise certain results to my customers.

I dunno... just some thoughts on the subject. Do you have any ideas on why? Its such a mystery and they would NEVER tell you ... hey this product changed... sorry about your luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:55 AM   #14
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Absolutely.

The variables. It takes a very long time to work through the variables. I'm running some tests with trim whites now. We're messing with colorant formulations quite a bit trying to get good hide. Then there's the substrate - new, primed, over latex?, over enamel?, over oil?, clean, dirty. Same finish but where are you painting? In the same room the crown area can be 15-20 degrees warmer than the baseboard...does it matter? Maybe. Do you go with a 3/8 or a 1/4 roller - wow what a difference.

Getting the right combination can be cumbersome and I'll admit abandoning some products before getting enough info to find what really works. Then the paint co's can mess with the product and everything starts all over - and that's just paint.

We need labs for this stuff.

Those are some very good observations! Right on!

Back in the day it used to be so easy... oil prime it and finish it in oil. Problem always solved. No hassles until the transitioning into waterbornes. I recall so many problems with SI. That product was one coating grey primed metal doors for me, then it took 3 coats on the same door before I dropped it like a 2 ton heavy thing from my line up.

Now its like finding certain products to do specific tasks the product might otherwise be lousy at.

Good luck on your trim whites. Believe it or not... I sometimes find one product does good for your first coat coverage but I'll finish it with another.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:08 PM   #15
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True, some take only a moment to figure out. My favorite brush of all time doesn't get a second look these days and that brush was used for years and years without ever experiencing any issues. I dont recognize the brush today.
Yeah my favourite brush was from Ben Moore and they got rid of it obviously because of economics...I think it was made by NOIR, their signature model..It was a 2 1/2 " sash, brown coloured BM brush...Perfect brush in every way and they got rid of it only for economics...They switched manufacturers for their signature line of brush..

I recently had a probem with Insl-X cabinet coat...It sprayed OK with my HVLP but it didn't brush as well as it did in the past...It used to brush and level like it was sprayed..This recent gallon dried too quick and there was brush strokes visibly,unlike it performed in the past..Was this a bad batch or a reformulation?
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:29 PM   #16
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Jose, i don't know anything about the Inslx, but that reminded of something I heard from a speaker at a paint seminar I went to last week.
He said more paint companies are replacing the some of the solvents with Acetone, because Acetone is exempt from VOC regs.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:55 PM   #17
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Jose, i don't know anything about the Inslx, but that reminded of something I heard from a speaker at a paint seminar I went to last week.
He said more paint companies are replacing the some of the solvents with Acetone, because Acetone is exempt from VOC regs.
Wow,acetone is something you really need to be careful with...Low VOC doesn't necessarily mean SAFE to use...I hate when manufacturers F with a good product...That said, I know what you mean.
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