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Old 10-17-2020, 03:15 AM   #1
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Default Anybody re-prime "pre-primed" trim?

all the contractors in my area use pre-primed trim, whether it be MDF or wood. i hate the factory primer and am trying to figure out a way to re-prime it without creating too much extra work for myself.


this next job i'm trying out having the finisher do all the trim work before i even prime the walls, do the prep work, then shoot the walls and trim at the same time with 123, spray trim, then walls/ceilings


was thinking of trying wall & wood from SW but haven't seen any reviews on how it actually works on walls.



i know of a lot of good primer/sealers for just drywall, and a lot of good primers for wood trim, but not a lot that are good at both. the BM in my area doesn't carry much in store despite having an extensive catalogue of product lines to order from, and walking into a SW they carry 3487564389 types of everything.
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Old 10-17-2020, 05:30 AM   #2
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Unless it was speced by the contractor, I don't see the point. I've never had a problem with preprimed trim. Especially if your using a quality trim paint. Plus 123 is going to be way more expensive than a regular drywall primer.
All the same, I have primed the drywall with the trim installed, thereby giving the trim a little extra love..Wouldnt' take that much more time really. Or line it all up on saw horses and bench prime it. On the bright side of having trim installed, you could fill all your nailholes first and prime those while your at it..
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:10 AM   #3
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My experience with preprinted trim is that it depends; some definitely needs to be primed again where some didn’t.
Redid all the baseboard trim in my own house after we had new hardwood floors put in and the bundle I got from the supplier almost looked good enough to put down with just the primer coat it came with. Almost.
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:48 AM   #4
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Depends on what type of factory primer was used. Both myself and another paint company I’ve worked with experienced catastrophic adhesion failures a couple of years ago on two back-to-back extensive millwork packs which were factory primed by others, and “not re-priming”, both requiring complete strip re-do’s. I’d try top coating a test piece first, let it cure, and perform an adhesion test. One of the factory applied primers we were having adhesion issues with was an MLC production lacquer undercoater. Several hundred running feet of cabinetry and applied moldings ended up having to be stripped and refinished. The other paint company ended up taking a $30K out-of-pocket hit. The remediation cost on my end was just under $7K, yet the client picked up my out-of-pocket expenses.

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Old 10-17-2020, 08:59 AM   #5
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Unless they're getting carpet installed, nobody's going to put baseboard on before the flooring goes in...

You really want to spray in a mostly finished house?
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Old 10-17-2020, 09:03 AM   #6
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Just bought some crown, base, and casing that we’re going to be installing next week. All pre primed mdf. We will be putting a coat of gardz(ya i know...) after installing and filler. It seriously works so well when it comes time to topcoat.


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Old 10-17-2020, 09:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP Mike View Post
all the contractors in my area use pre-primed trim, whether it be MDF or wood. i hate the factory primer and am trying to figure out a way to re-prime it without creating too much extra work for myself.


this next job i'm trying out having the finisher do all the trim work before i even prime the walls, do the prep work, then shoot the walls and trim at the same time with 123, spray trim, then walls/ceilings


was thinking of trying wall & wood from SW but haven't seen any reviews on how it actually works on walls.



i know of a lot of good primer/sealers for just drywall, and a lot of good primers for wood trim, but not a lot that are good at both. the BM in my area doesn't carry much in store despite having an extensive catalogue of product lines to order from, and walking into a SW they carry 3487564389 types of everything.
It appears like a reasonable idea to me. Especially when you've already caulked and puttied the pre primed trim.

I typically caulk after the drywall has been primed, but I'm not certain if there's a lot of issues caulking pre primed trim to un primed drywall. Maybe someone can clarify.
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Old 10-17-2020, 09:19 AM   #8
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A quick search of ALEX FLEX caulking provided the following:

Outstanding Adhesion to:
Wood, Metal, Brick, Aluminum, Glass, Concrete, Vinyl, Masonry, Most plastics, Plaster and drywall, Stucco, Stone, Painted surfaces, Composite Wood, PVC Molding

Performance Characteristics:  Exceeds the requirements of ASTM C920 standard specification for Elastomeric joint sealants, Type S, Grade NS, Class 12.5. Use NT, G, A and M. Exceeds ASTM Spec C834 Standard Specification for Latex Sealants.  Paintable in 30 minutes with latex or oil-based paints  Tack free in 15 minutes.  Easy water clean-up.

Surface Preparation & Application:
1. Surface must be clean, dry and free of old sealant, dirt, dust, debris and grease.
2. Trim the nozzle at 45° angle to desired bead size and load cartridge into caulking gun.
3. Fill the gap with sealant, pushing sealant ahead of nozzle.
4. If necessary, smooth or tool the bead with a finishing tool.
5. Clean up excess uncured sealant with a damp sponge before it skins over. Cured sealant must be cut or scraped away.
6. Allow 30 minutes for skin to form prior to painting. Allow additional dry time in high humidity or cool temperatures. Allow 72 hours for sealant to cure completely.
7. Reseal cartridge for storage and reuse
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
It appears like a reasonable idea to me. Especially when you've already caulked and puttied the pre primed trim.

I typically caulk after the drywall has been primed, but I'm not certain if there's a lot of issues caulking pre primed trim to un primed drywall. Maybe someone can clarify.
1. Caulking to unprimed drywall is a big NO-NO in my book. Especially to the mudded sections of drywall. No way caulking will stick to bare drywall mud. I would never do it.

2. Caulking to factory primer could be hit & miss. Depends how good the factory primer is, how good the adhesion of that primer to the MDF or wood is.

On top of it, knowing that most of the times in the new construction inexpensive caulking is used, recipe for disaster is right there.
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Last edited by IKnowNothing; 10-17-2020 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterwork View Post
Unless they're getting carpet installed, nobody's going to put baseboard on before the flooring goes in...

You really want to spray in a mostly finished house?

I typically do anyways. All of my trim is sprayed after all the trades are practically finished regardless.



Floors are always covered with ram board by the GC, I just have to butt up to underneath the trim with some 9" mask

Last edited by RP Mike; 10-17-2020 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
My experience with preprinted trim is that it depends; some definitely needs to be primed again where some didn’t.
Redid all the baseboard trim in my own house after we had new hardwood floors put in and the bundle I got from the supplier almost looked good enough to put down with just the primer coat it came with. Almost.

Most of the pre-primed around here, the primer comes off if it gets either wet, sanded, looked at, or even thought about!


Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
On the bright side of having trim installed, you could fill all your nailholes first and prime those while your at it..



you got it. that's the idea here. to blend those steps so priming the trim is a little less irritating. i'll give it a go this weekend and report back.
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Last edited by RP Mike; 10-17-2020 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:01 PM   #12
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That's ass-backwards to how we do it in this area.

Primer and first coat of paint go on as soon as the drywall is ready. Then I go back once the trim is on for the final coat on the walls and that's the first time I even see the trim.

Nobody gets to spray doors or trim because of the difficulty/expense in touch-ups.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:13 PM   #13
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ALEX FLEX.
Many-many years ago I stopped using Alex Flex caulking (too low of a quality product in my book), and 5 years ago I even stopped using the Dynaflex230. It was good, nice solid body to it, and suddenly became to watery. I guess the formula was changed.

I switched to PPG TOP GUN 400 Series, elastomeric acrylic urethane sealant.
Very modestly priced and in my opinion way superior product.
TOP GUN has other grades of caulkings, like 200 & 300 series, less expensive. But still very good products.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterwork View Post
Nobody gets to spray doors or trim because of the difficulty/expense in touch-ups.

Interesting!


don't think I've put a brush or roller to new trim/doors in about 4 years. the new builds i do are almost all custom though, so the H.O's get to come in every time and say how they want it done.. and i guess someone around here heard spraying was the best, so everyone wants it sprayed!


i prefer spraying as much as i can fwiw, so it's fine for me. but a couple of the GC's i work with won't even consider a painter if he isn't spraying trim/doors
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
ALEX FLEX.
Many-many years ago I stopped using Alex Flex caulking (too low of a quality product in my book), and 5 years ago I even stopped using the Dynaflex230. It was good, nice solid body to it, and suddenly became to watery. I guess the formula was changed.

I switched to PPG TOP GUN 400 Series, elastomeric acrylic urethane sealant.
Very modestly priced and in my opinion way superior product.
TOP GUN has other grades of caulkings, like 200 & 300 series, less expensive. But still very good products.
I have no preference for ALEX FLEX. I just randomly chose it to demonstrate that painting grade caulking, in general, doesn't specify in the technical literature that a primer is required over practically any bare substrate prior to its application.

Personally, I was taught to prime everything before patching, putting, or caulking. I'm not so sure that is the case these days given the advancements in coating science.

I do believe there is some merit to priming caulked areas prior to finish coating. But the common practice is to apply a finish grade paint product directly over un primed caulk.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:34 PM   #16
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The last placed I actually sprayed doors was at a drug factory, where they make dental drugs. They spec'd sprayed doors and frames in their laboratory area. So we did it. Once they had moved their lab equipment back in and were using it for a few weeks, the doors had some damage. They had their plant maintenance guy do touch-ups, which he obviously didn't spray. They were so unimpressed with how it looked, they paid us to go back and repaint ALL the doors/frames we had sprayed with brush and roller.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
I have no preference for ALEX FLEX. I just randomly chose it to demonstrate that painting grade caulking, in general, doesn't specify in the technical literature that a primer is required over practically any bare substrate prior to its application.

Personally, I was taught to prime everything before patching, putting, or caulking. I'm not so sure that is the case these days given the advancements in coating science.

I do believe there is some merit to priming caulked areas prior to finish coating. But the common practice is to apply a finish grade paint product directly over un primed caulk.
No, lol, I think it's the advancements in the level of greediness of many General Contractors in new construction trying to do things as cheap as possible.
Best example as we all know of course, is not using primer/sealer on new drywall, just two coats of cheap contractors flat or matt.
Yes it sticks to the paper areas of the drywall but not so much to the mudded areas.

*EDIT*
I guess I forgot of super-duper chemical advancement in paint technology called Paint & Primer in one. lol

Last edited by IKnowNothing; 10-17-2020 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 10-17-2020, 01:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
No, lol, I think it's the advancements in the level of greediness of many General Contractors in new construction trying to do things as cheap as possible.
Best example as we all know of course, is not using primer/sealer on new drywall, just two coats of cheap contractors flat or matt.
Yes it sticks to the paper areas of the drywall but not so much to the mudded areas.

*EDIT*
I guess I forgot of super-duper chemical advancement in paint technology called Paint & Primer in one. lol
There's no question that the introduction of primer/finish in one products have been controversial from a best practice, and an economic stand point. However, in terms of liability, if a manufacturer states in their specifications that their product can do what it says it can do (under the conditions they provide), what harm is there in using that product in the manner they recommend, or require? Particularly if it saves time, and subsequently money.

Frankly, how can there be a right way and a wrong way in an industry that is driven by subjectivity rather than a standard and regulated practice followed across the board? Answer: There isn't.
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Old 10-18-2020, 06:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
A quick search of ALEX FLEX caulking provided the following:

Outstanding Adhesion to:
Wood, Metal, Brick, Aluminum, Glass, Concrete, Vinyl, Masonry, Most plastics, Plaster and drywall, Stucco, Stone, Painted surfaces, Composite Wood, PVC Molding

Performance Characteristics:  Exceeds the requirements of ASTM C920 standard specification for Elastomeric joint sealants, Type S, Grade NS, Class 12.5. Use NT, G, A and M. Exceeds ASTM Spec C834 Standard Specification for Latex Sealants.  Paintable in 30 minutes with latex or oil-based paints  Tack free in 15 minutes.  Easy water clean-up.

Surface Preparation & Application:
1. Surface must be clean, dry and free of old sealant, dirt, dust, debris and grease.
2. Trim the nozzle at 45° angle to desired bead size and load cartridge into caulking gun.
3. Fill the gap with sealant, pushing sealant ahead of nozzle.
4. If necessary, smooth or tool the bead with a finishing tool.
5. Clean up excess uncured sealant with a damp sponge before it skins over. Cured sealant must be cut or scraped away.
6. Allow 30 minutes for skin to form prior to painting. Allow additional dry time in high humidity or cool temperatures. Allow 72 hours for sealant to cure completely.
7. Reseal cartridge for storage and reuse
I wouldn't caulk before priming. Only fill the nail holes. They are more likely to flash than the caulking, regardless of which caulking you use. Also, if your sanding your nailholes after, you have a chance of burning through the factory primer. I've never had a problem with caulking flashing. Although I will agree with iknownothing, about the ppg top gun 400. That stuff is fantastic. I just used some on an exterior and it is bullet proof. Also good down to 5 degs C.

Last edited by finishesbykevyn; 10-18-2020 at 06:58 AM.. Reason: added text
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:46 PM   #20
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i hardly ever caulk to new drywall but the very few times when it was asked there have not been any issues.

i specifically ask if the doors will be there before the floor so i can spray them there, if im doing 30 doors by hand the price will be quite a bit higher
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