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Old 08-23-2009, 08:53 AM   #1
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Default Chlorine Bleach and Mold Clean Up

Parodi posted this on the NGPP Bulletim Board, I thought it appropriate to copy and paste here. The link at the beginning is the source of the printed material below.............




http://www.spore-tech.com/viewCatego...?idCategory=78


Chlorine Bleach and Mold Clean Up
(Let's Set the Record Straight!)


The Myth.
A myth exists concerning the use and “effectiveness” of chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) in the remediation of a mold problem. Mold remediation involves the removal and or clean up and restoration of mold contaminated building materials.

Opposing Views and Confusion.
Chlorine bleach, commonly referred to as laundry bleach, is generally perceived to be an “accepted and answer-all” biocide to abate mold in the remediation processes. Well-intentioned recommendations of health departments and other state and local agencies are perpetuating that belief. The Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) who once recommended using clorine bleach for mold abatement was the first federal agency to stop recommending the use of liquid bleach in mold remediation. Subsequently, The Environmental Protection Agency wrote-out/edited their A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture and Your Home (EPA 402-k-02-003) to exclude their once recommended use of bleach as a mold clean-up agent.

Does Bleach Really Kill Mold?
Will chlorine bleach kill mold or not—yes or no? The answer is yes, but with a caveat. That answer comes from The Clorox Company, Oakland CA, manufacturer and distributor of Ultra Clorox® Regular Bleach. The company’s correspondence to Spore°Tech Mold Investigations, LLC stated that their Tech Center studies supported by independent laboratories show that “…3/4 cup of Clorox liquid bleach per gallon of water will be effective on hard, non-porous surfaces against… Aspergillus niger and Trichophyton mentagrophytes (Athlete’s Foot Fungus)”. Whether or not chlorine bleach kills other molds and fungi, the company did not say. The “hard, non-porous surfaces” part of the sentence is a caveat. Mold remediation involves the need to disinfect wood and wood-based building materials, all of which are porous materials. Thus, chlorine bleach should not be used in mold remediation as confirmed by OSHA’s and EPA's updated recommendations and suggested guidelines. The use of bleach as a mold disinfectant is best left to kitchen and bathroom countertops, tubs and shower glass, etc.

Why Chlorine Bleach is NOT Recommended for Mold Remediation.
Clorine bleach is corrosive and that fact is stated on the product label (not to mention the exposure hazards of dioxins). Yet the properties of chlorine bleach prevent it from “soaking into” wood-based building materials to get at the deeply embedded mycelia (roots) of mold. The object to killing mold is to kill its “roots”. Reputable mold remediation contractors use appropriate products that effectively disinfect properly scrubbed and cleaned salvageable mold infected wood products. Beware of any mold inspector, mold remediation contractor or other individual that recommends or uses chlorine bleach for mold clean up on wood-based building materials.

Chlorine Bleach Is Active Ingredient in New Mold & Mildew Products.
The appearance of new mold and mildew household products on store shelves is on the rise. Most are dilute solutions of laundry bleach. The labels on these mold and mildew products state that they are for use on (again) hard, non-porous surfaces and not for wood-based materials. Instructions where not to apply the products are varied. A few examples where the branded products should not be applied include wood or painted surfaces, aluminum products, metal (including stainless steel), faucets, marble, natural stone, and, of course, carpeting, fabrics and paper. One commercial mold and mildew stain remover even specifically states it should not be applied to porcelain or metal without immediate rinsing with water and that the product isn’t recommended for use on formica or vinyl.

Caveat Emptor!
Before purchasing a mold and mildew product, read and fully understand the advertised purpose of that product — and correctly follow the use instructions of a purchased product. The labeling claims on these new products can be confusing — some say their product is a mold and mildew remover while another says their product is a mildew stain remover and yet others make similar 'ambiguous' claims. Make double sure that the product satisfies your intended need on the surface to which it is to be applied. If your intention is to kill mold, make sure the product does exactly that and follow the directions for usage. Consumers may find that mixing their own diluted bleach solution will achieve the same results when used on surfaces recommended by manufacturers of commericial mold and mildew cleaning products — keep in mind that the use of chlorine bleach is not for use on mold infected wood products including wall board, ceiling tiles, wall studs, fabric, paper products, etc.

Conclusion.
Laundry bleach is not an effective mold killing agent for wood-based building materials and NOT EFFECTIVE in the mold remediation process. OSHA is the first federal agency to announce a departure from the use of chlorine bleach in mold remediation. In time, other federal, state and other public safety agencies are expected to follow OSHA’s lead. The public should be aware, however, that a chlorine bleach solution IS an effective sanitizing product that kills mold on hard non porous surfaces and neutralizes indoor mold allergens that trigger allergies.

CAUTION: DO NOT MIX CHLORINE BLEACH WITH OTHER HOUSEHOLD CLEANING AGENTS. DOING SO CAN CAUSE SERIOUS HARM TO HUMAN HEALTH AND EVEN DEATH. For example, mixing chlorine bleach with cleaning products that contain ammonia or acid (vinegar, as one example) releases chlorine or chloramines, gases which are highly TOXIC.



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Old 08-23-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
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A little more info about bleach can be found here
http://www.reference.com/browse/Sodium+hypochlorite

the article ends with this:
A recent study indicated for the first time that sodium hypochlorite and organic chemicals (e.g., surfactants, fragrances) contained in several household cleaning products react to generate chlorinated volatile organic compounds (VOCs). These chlorinated compounds are emitted during cleaning applications and most of them are toxic and probable human carcinogens.The study showed that indoor air concentrations significantly increase (8-52 times for chloroform and 1-1170 times for carbon tetrachloride) during the use of bleach containing products. The increase in chlorinated volatile organic compound concentrations was the lowest for plain bleach and the highest for the products in the form of “thick liquid and gel”. The significant increases observed in indoor air concentrations of several chlorinated VOCs (especially carbon tetrachloride and chloroform) indicate that the household bleach use is a newly identified source that could be important in terms of inhalation exposure to these compounds . Preliminary risk assessment suggested that using these cleaning products may significantly increase the cancer risk. Further studies are also needed for a detailed investigation of the health risks associated with the use of these products and other possible exposure routes (i.e., dermal). However, these are not the only adverse environmental effects of the released VOCs, they are also ozone depleting compounds and powerful greenhouse gases.

And, I'll have to do a little more looking to find support for this but I believe that using bleach in cleaning , if not followed with adequate rinsing, can provide a food source for the new growth of mold. I'm not up on all of the chemistry of it but the bleach turns into a crystaline salt/sugar compound..... Maybe someone can point in the right direction on this one.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:35 PM   #3
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Ok so what products do you like, instead of bleach. And yes I have know that bleach wasn't the best. But at the same time no one has said what to use that wasn't some zillion $$ for basically bleach.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:36 PM   #4
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I say if it works for you, use it. It has always worked for me, sometimes it is the only thing that does work.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:51 PM   #5
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TSP will kill mold and mildew.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:12 PM   #6
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Sodium hypochlorite is a viable and effective agent for killing mold. Most of the times when I read this hype, it is followed by a sales pitch for an alternative product. Ironically many of the products that claim to "kill" the mold leave behind dead spores which still cause allergic reaction. Bleach actually denatures the surface proteins on the mold spore which makes it benign/non-allergenic.

The reason for all this hype saying "bleach doesn't kill mold" has more to do with application than the chemical itself. If there is dirt on a surface and/or the dilution of sodium hypochlorite is too weak, the chemical will not penetrate porous surfaces. If you will notice in the quoted Clorox study a very weak dilution of bleach was used. Of course that is not going to penetrate porous surfaces.

I'm sure if you asked a Clorox scientist, "Hey what if we added a surfactant and bumped up the sodium hypochlorite dilution to 4%. Do you think that would do the job?" his answer would be "absolutely". The caveats of bleach are not in its effectiveness (it works.. period) but in the fact that it is such a strong oxidizer. It cannot and should not come in contact with metal. That means wiring and piping are taboo.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:34 PM   #7
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I have tried some of the nonbleach alternatives (Moldex for one, one variety of which seems awfully similar to JoMax and requires the addition of bleach as well. It claims to kill roots, or whatever), but none of them have ever worked as well for me as bleach and water or bleach+JoMax+water.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:08 AM   #8
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With proper warnings in mind, we use bleach all day long on our exterior cleanings and like Ken said, we use it strong. We've pretty much stopped using it inside though. Hardly ever wipe down a counter with it in the kitchen or use it in general interior cleaning. If there was something as effective and not price prohibitive then I'd love to use it on exterior cleanings too. We used percarbonate/oxygenated bleach on one job around a nursing home instead of bleach. It worked but it took a lot longer to do.
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:03 AM   #9
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Thanks Bill,
I havent came across alot of mold. If i were, i would just recommend a licensed mold removal company. It serious stuff in Cali. You can not touch it if you are not licensed for it. If you do and get caught, your looking at getting your contractor license suspended and fines. I cant risk that.
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BTW, does any ony here carry a license for mold/asbesto removal? And, does your state require you to have one?
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:18 AM   #10
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This necro comment and fabulous picture was removed (with regret) as the offending post was spam from India, but thank you steve, it WAS appreciated

Last edited by daArch; 07-12-2012 at 07:43 AM.. Reason: moot
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:43 AM   #11
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Good work deleting those links daArch.

I'm glad you mods are on the job looking for that kinda thing.

(instead of relying on someone to tattletale)

GD tattletalers
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Richards View Post
Good work deleting those links daArch.

I'm glad you mods are on the job looking for that kinda thing.

(instead of relying on someone to tattletale)

GD tattletalers

then I won't tell you who "tattled"

COUGHWATKINSCOUGH



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Old 07-12-2012, 07:51 AM   #13
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Since you removed his whole post, and my reply...

would you mind deleting everything I posted.

Let's just pretend I was never here this morning.

(I was planning on leaving for work about 15 minutes ago...an yet HERE I SIT!)

GD PT!

(delete that too)

thanks
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:00 AM   #14
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and rob others of the entertainment?

Oh Steve, I couldn't do THAT.



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Old 07-12-2012, 08:08 AM   #15
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There is a substance made from crabshells that works very well in keeping mold from growing, its in a few mold removal products. Its called chitosan. Look it up.
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