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Old 10-02-2016, 11:36 PM   #21
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I also have that expensive 395 Graco AAA. I feel like I'm cheating because a real painter can achieve the same finish with a regular airless. What's a girl to do?
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:35 AM   #22
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I've been shooting breakthrough. 10% water alttle less than 5% BM extender. It was the alcohol in the washer fluid that I feel was giving me film issues.

I like the #4 fluid set.

If I pick up an airless what products do you guys like? I think I'd go grab some msa and start experimenting.

For strictly trim I've been through some of the old threads. At one point cashmere was pretty popular. I've seen some on here like solo as well. Aura has gotten the nod too a few times.

Ideally quick block resistance is nice, easy to spray would be nice. I know a lot like advance but I don't think I'd ever be in the position to wait for advance to cure.

Do you still thin or retard with an airless? I'd imagine orange peel is still an issue with some products.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayn3ver View Post
I've been shooting breakthrough. 10% water alttle less than 5% BM extender. It was the alcohol in the washer fluid that I feel was giving me film issues.

I like the #4 fluid set.

If I pick up an airless what products do you guys like? I think I'd go grab some msa and start experimenting.

For strictly trim I've been through some of the old threads. At one point cashmere was pretty popular. I've seen some on here like solo as well. Aura has gotten the nod too a few times.

Ideally quick block resistance is nice, easy to spray would be nice. I know a lot like advance but I don't think I'd ever be in the position to wait for advance to cure.

Do you still thin or retard with an airless? I'd imagine orange peel is still an issue with some products.
Some info I can share for switching to airless:
- no on cashmere, solo works but has a lesser quality finish and feel, Aura flows good but can be a disaster to spray and it will sag some time after you thought it might be okay.
- I used Insl-x cabinet coat successfully and found it very easy to spray, it dries in great time, it self levels great, feels, smooth. On the very rare run I got on the last job, I sanded it down to flush quite easily, so it sands good.
- You should not have to sand finish paint between coats to smooth it or get rid of orange peel. If you do, sanding marks are likely to show in the finish. There will not be orange peel if you go through the motions with the gun right. Don't concentrate on the finish look while spraying, just don't go too slow with the gun or it will "pile up".

- Do not thin most water bornes. You won't need to do that to eliminate orange peel. Between pro classic, advance, cabinet coat, dura poxy (which is pretty decent stuff) have not had orange peel with a 410 ff tip.

- Use 410 because it puts a nice thin amount on, just overlap some, putting 2- 3 quick passes. Gun should be a foot from surface to get a feathered look or finer spray.. Or get closer for a quicker, more direct spray and move gun slightly faster.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:50 AM   #24
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I have 2 pictures of 1coat of cabinet coat sprayed with a 410FF. Third pic is after two coats. No sanding in between coats.
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Client Expectations for sprayed trim-1475481027868.jpg  

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Old 10-03-2016, 12:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by slinger58 View Post
I stopped paying attention to the manufacturer's recommendations on tip sizes a long time ago. Don't know why they always seem to recommend sizes much larger than I would use.
I think part of the reason they recommend larger tips than we would use, is because they typically do not recommend thinning.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:35 PM   #26
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I think part of the reason they recommend larger tips than we would use, is because they typically do not recommend thinning.
Nothing to do with thinning or not thinning.

Satin Impervo can said 517 tip, we all know that these instructions are pretty much non applicable unless your blasting walls, even then the 'ol Impervo would be flowing down those walls.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ridesarize View Post
Nothing to do with thinning or not thinning.

Satin Impervo can said 517 tip, we all know that these instructions are pretty much non applicable unless your blasting walls, even then the 'ol Impervo would be flowing down those walls.
Both alkyd and waterborne Satin Impervo TDS recommend airless tips between .011 and .015 at pressures between 1500 and 2500 psi. It doesn't mention fan width.

I was expecting to see a conventional tip recommendation, but I guess everything is geared towards airless these days.

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Old 10-03-2016, 08:04 PM   #28
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Bigger orifice, bigger fan, more fluid, more overspray, more paint sales....? I'm pretty sure they don't care about the finish as much as they do about their sales....just a thought...
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngieM View Post
I also have that expensive 395 Graco AAA. I feel like I'm cheating because a real painter can achieve the same finish with a regular airless. What's a girl to do?
Keep cheatin'! (But I have the impression that you're a "real painter" Angie).
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:06 AM   #30
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Many products look great when sprayed, but it's also import that it looks great when it's brushed.

I've had experience using Advance, Solo, Breakthrough, Pro Classic (waterborne formula) and SW Water Borne Alkyd Urethane.

For the last year I've been using SW Water Borne Alkyd Urethane for trim packs and cabinets. The finish is exceptional when I've sprayed it and it also brushes very well if you add the maximum amount of water per the data sheet. Here's a few shots of a trim pack I shot earlier this year.







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Old 10-04-2016, 11:52 AM   #31
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I use the "handcrafted" excuse to deflect any concerns about my brush marks. At the end of the day, the owner thinks they're getting a deal for such craftsmanship. I don't suggest new painters try this out the gate. It's taken years of practice to be convincing. Being old and of European heritage also helps.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
I use the "handcrafted" excuse to deflect any concerns about my brush marks. At the end of the day, the owner thinks they're getting a deal for such craftsmanship. I don't suggest new painters try this out the gate. It's taken years of practice to be convincing. Being old and of European heritage also helps.
That's called thinning your sales pitch with a little old fashioned BS.

My hat's off to ya, CA.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngieM View Post
I also have that expensive 395 Graco AAA. I feel like I'm cheating because a real painter can achieve the same finish with a regular airless. What's a girl to do?
I second what Joe said. I would add it takes someone that cares enough to do what it takes to make your next job better than your last. That attitude takes a fair painter a good painter and then a great painter. Seems to me Angie that you have this quality. You go girl
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
I use the "handcrafted" excuse to deflect any concerns about my brush marks. At the end of the day, the owner thinks they're getting a deal for such craftsmanship. I don't suggest new painters try this out the gate. It's taken years of practice to be convincing. Being old and of European heritage also helps.
I know this is part of CA's "enough with overrating the craftsmanship of painting" posts, but I've been reading this thread and the whole time thinking I actually just prefer the look of a brushed on finish. Sprayed finishes (when done well!) look "factory." Cold, lifeless, boring, and machine-like. They have no soul.

And I'm not talking about big, ugly, gloppy, and unruly brush marks. I'm talking about the hint of human hands done in such a way that the mind never thinks twice about it because it suggests there is still woodgrain under there.

From the "craft" side, I like doing it, true. But that's not even my point here. I prefer living a world of humans rather than machines. A world with soul. Some of you will likely roll your eyes and call that a wee-bit deep and goofy for a discussion about getting a nice finish onto trim. And that's cool. This is all just a matter of aesthetics and philosophies and "feelings." So to each his/her own.

And just to be clear, none of this is to say that there aren't very good reasons to spray some stuff too. It just depends.
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe67 View Post
I know this is part of CA's "enough with overrating the craftsmanship of painting" posts, but I've been reading this thread and the whole time thinking I actually just prefer the look of a brushed on finish. Sprayed finishes (when done well!) look "factory." Cold, lifeless, boring, and machine-like. They have no soul.

And I'm not talking about big, ugly, gloppy, and unruly brush marks. I'm talking about the hint of human hands done in such a way that the mind never thinks twice about it because it suggests there is still woodgrain under there.

From the "craft" side, I like doing it, true. But that's not even my point here. I prefer living a world of humans rather than machines. A world with soul. Some of you will likely roll your eyes and call that a wee-bit deep and goofy for a discussion about getting a nice finish onto trim. And that's cool. This is all just a matter of aesthetics and philosophies and "feelings." So to each his/her own.

And just to be clear, none of this is to say that there aren't very good reasons to spray some stuff too. It just depends.
My god, that's practically poetic! While I'd tend to agree for the most part, I'd be pretty picky about what customers I'd try and sell that story on. Some would likely shed a tear, where others would scowl and call you a con man.

Well written tho.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildbill7145 View Post
My god, that's practically poetic! While I'd tend to agree for the most part, I'd be pretty picky about what customers I'd try and sell that story on. Some would likely shed a tear, where others would scowl and call you a con man.

Well written tho.
LOL. Long day that I capped off with a little beer & whiskey so I guess I was feeling inspired. I had also heard this story on the radio on the way home so it may have gotten me going!

I don't lay it on the customers. I just do it the way I do it. If someone asked me to give them the sprayed factory look, we have a nice Titan - which I certainly do break out when appropriate.
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:52 PM   #37
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I spray 208 Ff or 207 regular on cabinet base and any trim, on doors usually 210 on cab doors 310 for regular doors. I have sprayed just about everything impervo,proclassic,cab coat,all sw indutrials. I thin all just a bit. I thin cover stain to get a great primer finish. Really cuts sanding down to just a scuff and vac.
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