Hatbanding issue- cant figure out cause - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Like Tree36Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2019, 02:25 AM   #1
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default Hatbanding issue- cant figure out cause

Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3 picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4 cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldnt be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...Im at a loss, thoughts or advice?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-03-2019, 05:50 AM   #2
Kev D.
 
finishesbykevyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newfoundland Can.
Posts: 1,152
Rewards Points: 1,119
Thanks: 243
Thanked 170 Times in 144 Posts
View finishesbykevyn's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!
finishesbykevyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 11:32 AM   #3
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 18,415
Rewards Points: 10,266
Thanks: 11,553
Thanked 15,362 Times in 8,047 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.
__________________
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."

Groucho Marx
RH is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-03-2019, 11:37 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 776
Rewards Points: 1,552
Thanks: 5
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
View Lightningboy65's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I prefer to call it top hatting....I'm always looking for a reason to evoke honest Abe's spirit. Especially so close to the Fourth!
Lightningboy65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 11:49 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 875
Rewards Points: 1,752
Thanks: 56
Thanked 108 Times in 89 Posts
View Mr Smith's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.
monarchski likes this.

Last edited by Mr Smith; 07-03-2019 at 11:55 AM..
Mr Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 12:36 PM   #6
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 18,415
Rewards Points: 10,266
Thanks: 11,553
Thanked 15,362 Times in 8,047 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.
I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.
PPD likes this.
__________________
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."

Groucho Marx
RH is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RH For This Useful Post:
PPD (07-06-2019)
Old 07-03-2019, 12:54 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 875
Rewards Points: 1,752
Thanks: 56
Thanked 108 Times in 89 Posts
View Mr Smith's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.
I use Regal mainly for brushing trim. I add some BM extender and it brushes like butter. I have used the Regal matte a few times without issue. I had zero runs.

Next job is spec'd for regal eggshell. I'll let you know how that turns out. It's for a $2M house but the color is Cloud White
OC-130. I bid three coats just in case it doesn't cover over the dark colors.

The paint I love to use for prepping homes for sale is BM Ultra Spec 500. It's so easy to apply and is the best looking low sheen i've ever seen. If it was more durable that would be my go-to paint. The only downside is that it doesn't spread that far compared to most paints, so it's actual cost per square foot is similar to BEN.
PPD likes this.
Mr Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 01:38 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 11,255
Rewards Points: 2,102
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,704 Times in 3,172 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"I'll have a double scotch with a twist of bourbon" Rodney Dangerfield
PACman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 10:07 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Woodco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 2,539
Rewards Points: 5,080
Thanks: 20
Thanked 392 Times in 331 Posts
View Woodco's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.
canopainting, Holland and PPD like this.
Woodco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 12:22 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 1,522
Rewards Points: 1,246
Thanks: 41
Thanked 243 Times in 213 Posts
View cocomonkeynuts's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPD View Post
Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3” picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4” cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldn’t be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...I’m at a loss, thoughts or advice?

What color is it tinted? Which roller cover?
cocomonkeynuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 12:41 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 1,522
Rewards Points: 1,246
Thanks: 41
Thanked 243 Times in 213 Posts
View cocomonkeynuts's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.
Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.


Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.
store021 likes this.

Last edited by cocomonkeynuts; 07-05-2019 at 12:59 AM..
cocomonkeynuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:15 PM   #12
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!


Oh sorry no- I cut 2x by the end...always do 2 coats unless its a distressed age finish on something like trim or cabinet/furniture.

Its a darker color...based on the replied Im thinkin that is prolly a major factor. Im goin back tomorrow when the property will be empty of carpenters to apply a thin 3rd to see if I can get rid of the hat banding before straie layer. Ill be sure to over-mix & see if that solves it!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:15 PM   #13
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.


Agreed!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:18 PM   #14
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.


Ive had running issues with the regal as well...first time using it was a cabinet job (HO bought paint) & I had to triple check the spec sheet to be sure Id applied the right film thickness cuz the DT was wayyyy to long for my comfort & I had to clean up a few sags during application.

Have avoided it ever since...but maybe a learning curve I just need to master?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:33 PM   #15
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?


Of course ;p ...some mentioned the base can be an issue with the darker colors, any thoughts?

I did notice the roll out was drying fast compared to past experience (w/ lighter colors). Thought maybe it was going on thinner than my cut in...may try switching to mohair & see if that eliminates the issue but I need to double check on scrap board first.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:34 PM   #16
PPD
Girl Boss
 
PPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 55
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
View PPD's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.

Ok, this is the first time Ive used the aurora in a dark color too...thank u for that info! I thought I was going mad...
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Perfectly Painted Designs

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Diego, CA
PPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 01:24 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 130
Thanks: 3
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
View celicaxx's Photo Album My Photos
Default

In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.

I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions.

So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.
celicaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:36 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 11,255
Rewards Points: 2,102
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,704 Times in 3,172 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.


Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.


That's because you can't buy it at a Sherwin Williams store! You should know that by now!
PPD likes this.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"I'll have a double scotch with a twist of bourbon" Rodney Dangerfield
PACman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:37 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 11,255
Rewards Points: 2,102
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,704 Times in 3,172 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by celicaxx View Post
In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.

I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions.

So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.
See what i mean?
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"I'll have a double scotch with a twist of bourbon" Rodney Dangerfield
PACman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:22 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 11,255
Rewards Points: 2,102
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,704 Times in 3,172 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPD View Post
Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3 picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4 cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldnt be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...Im at a loss, thoughts or advice?
Just an FYI, my experience in selling paint in San Diego tells me that unlike a lot of areas of the country there can be quite a difference in Temps and humidity depending where you are in the county. It can be 80Deg and 60% humidity in OB and 110deg and 5% in Poway for example. Any paint you use will act differently in this example. (OB-Ocean Beach for you....other people)
If you were in Dallas for example, there isn't going to be any difference in temp and humidity anywhere you are. This is something to keep in mind i guess. A lot of painters i knew there didn't quite understand this principle. Especially when they were using Conversion varnish. What a cluster.
vwbowman likes this.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"I'll have a double scotch with a twist of bourbon" Rodney Dangerfield
PACman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com