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Old 07-03-2019, 02:25 AM   #1
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Default Hatbanding issue- cant figure out cause

Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3 picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4 cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldnt be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...Im at a loss, thoughts or advice?
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:50 AM   #2
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Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:32 AM   #3
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For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:37 AM   #4
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I prefer to call it top hatting....I'm always looking for a reason to evoke honest Abe's spirit. Especially so close to the Fourth!
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:49 AM   #5
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For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.

Last edited by Mr Smith; 07-03-2019 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.
I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:54 PM   #7
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I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.
I use Regal mainly for brushing trim. I add some BM extender and it brushes like butter. I have used the Regal matte a few times without issue. I had zero runs.

Next job is spec'd for regal eggshell. I'll let you know how that turns out. It's for a $2M house but the color is Cloud White
OC-130. I bid three coats just in case it doesn't cover over the dark colors.

The paint I love to use for prepping homes for sale is BM Ultra Spec 500. It's so easy to apply and is the best looking low sheen i've ever seen. If it was more durable that would be my go-to paint. The only downside is that it doesn't spread that far compared to most paints, so it's actual cost per square foot is similar to BEN.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:38 PM   #8
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did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:07 PM   #9
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I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPD View Post
Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3” picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4” cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldn’t be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...I’m at a loss, thoughts or advice?

What color is it tinted? Which roller cover?
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.
Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.


Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.

Last edited by cocomonkeynuts; 07-05-2019 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!


Oh sorry no- I cut 2x by the end...always do 2 coats unless its a distressed age finish on something like trim or cabinet/furniture.

Its a darker color...based on the replied Im thinkin that is prolly a major factor. Im goin back tomorrow when the property will be empty of carpenters to apply a thin 3rd to see if I can get rid of the hat banding before straie layer. Ill be sure to over-mix & see if that solves it!
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
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For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.


Agreed!
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.


Ive had running issues with the regal as well...first time using it was a cabinet job (HO bought paint) & I had to triple check the spec sheet to be sure Id applied the right film thickness cuz the DT was wayyyy to long for my comfort & I had to clean up a few sags during application.

Have avoided it ever since...but maybe a learning curve I just need to master?
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:33 PM   #15
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did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?


Of course ;p ...some mentioned the base can be an issue with the darker colors, any thoughts?

I did notice the roll out was drying fast compared to past experience (w/ lighter colors). Thought maybe it was going on thinner than my cut in...may try switching to mohair & see if that eliminates the issue but I need to double check on scrap board first.
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:34 PM   #16
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I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.

Ok, this is the first time Ive used the aurora in a dark color too...thank u for that info! I thought I was going mad...
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:24 AM   #17
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In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.

I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions.

So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.


Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.


That's because you can't buy it at a Sherwin Williams store! You should know that by now!
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celicaxx View Post
In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.

I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions.

So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.
See what i mean?
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPD View Post
Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3 picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4 cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens.

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldnt be altering that much should it?

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...Im at a loss, thoughts or advice?
Just an FYI, my experience in selling paint in San Diego tells me that unlike a lot of areas of the country there can be quite a difference in Temps and humidity depending where you are in the county. It can be 80Deg and 60% humidity in OB and 110deg and 5% in Poway for example. Any paint you use will act differently in this example. (OB-Ocean Beach for you....other people)
If you were in Dallas for example, there isn't going to be any difference in temp and humidity anywhere you are. This is something to keep in mind i guess. A lot of painters i knew there didn't quite understand this principle. Especially when they were using Conversion varnish. What a cluster.
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