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Old 01-20-2016, 11:38 PM   #41
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The Cashmere medium luster is a nice trim paint. Before using it in the field I tested it out against the latex proclassic. It didn't lay out as nice but it also doesn't run.

it.


Seems like that is a one to one correspondence. The better a paint levels, the more it has to move after application .

A greater propensity to run, sag, or pool seems synonymous with leveling qualities to me. How else could a coating level except to move somewhat during the drying process.




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Old 01-21-2016, 06:27 AM   #42
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Seems like that is a one to one correspondence. The better a paint levels, the more it has to move after application .

A greater propensity to run, sag, or pool seems synonymous with leveling qualities to me. How else could a coating level except to move somewhat during the drying process.




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Right obviously. My problem with the latex proclassic is that after all that movement and your attention spent making sure that movement doesn't end up as a little puddle at the bottom of a door jam the end result isn't all that nice.

I think the oil is easier to work with than the latex and doesn't run as much.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:12 AM   #43
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I've got a house coming up with beautiful stained trim. I'm talking top of the line stuff and lots of it crown, chair rail, doors, huge fireplace mantel with build ins. They are selling the house and the bigger complaint they get from buyers is the house needs updating, meaning paint the trim.
So I'm converting it all to paint. I quoted it for a primer and two coats of Cashmere. The closer I get to the start date the more leaving brush marks has me worried. Spraying is out of the question and so is oil. I've never had much love for Proclassic because it can run like crazy especially down door jam grooves. Plus other than leveling out nice I think the finish feels dry and doesn't look all that great.

I got comped a gallon of the pro industrial multi surface which according to SW is their answer to breakthrough. I've been testing it out along side breakthrough and I think I may have found a winner.

So far I've put it right over Proclassic semi gloss oil and couldn't scratch it off an hour later (same for breakthrough) and it layed out nice like the breakthrough does.

They smell the same with the biggest difference being consistency. The breakthrough is super thin and the multi surface is pretty darn thick. From what I've done with it so far it leveled just as good as breakthrough (which is pretty GD good) and seemed to have more hide. Breakthrough is thin and doesn't hide well at all. If you try to put it on thicker it'll just run and sag all over the place.

Tomorrow I'm gonna get my hands on some cabinet doors and that have never been painted before and put it to the test. If what I've seen from it on a smaller sample holds true on a larger scale I think I may have found my new go to trim paint.

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Although many here may have disagreed with me, I've stated before that Sherwin's Industrial line has some great products. The MS has great adhesion properties, flows & levels well, and dries as hard as anything. The only area Breakthrough is superior is in its blocking abilities, (specifically, early blocking), at least from my experience. For that trim job, I think it would do well. For cabs, BT would get my vote. JMO.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:26 AM   #44
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Right obviously. My problem with the latex proclassic is that after all that movement and your attention spent making sure that movement doesn't end up as a little puddle at the bottom of a door jam the end result isn't all that nice.

I think the oil is easier to work with than the latex and doesn't run as much.
Pro Tip: when painting frames with PC latex, complete your stroke 1/2" from the floor. The PC will run the remainder of the way down.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:55 AM   #45
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As I understand it, that's another part of the EPA game with paints: how it's labeled. Call it "Industrial" and you have a different standard of compliance. It matters not where it's actually used.

Are we having fun yet?
It actually does matter where it's used, but they have no way of knowing because they don't have thousands of inspectors to find out! There is very little actual enforcement able to be done at the application point, but it is technically illegal to use an "industrial" labelled paint on a non-voc approved substrate. Industrial alkyd enamels have to be labelled for use on metal, but are they actually any different then the old all purpose alkyds? Nope. If you use them on wood your chances of getting caught aren't pretty high unless you have a spray booth requiring a permit. BUT, who knows when those EPA guys will get the funding to enforce the regs? I hope I get a heads up.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:05 AM   #46
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Man I really feel sorry for you painters that don't have access or won't try Ultraplate. It pretty much fixes all of the little issues you are having with trim paint. Early block resistance, incredible adhesion, drys good and hard over night, Brushed touch-ups blend like a sprayed finish, lays out when brushed like nothing I have ever seen. Low odor, great sheen level. I wish more people had it nearby.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:20 AM   #47
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Man I really feel sorry for you painters that don't have access or won't try Ultraplate. It pretty much fixes all of the little issues you are having with trim paint. Early block resistance, incredible adhesion, drys good and hard over night, Brushed touch-ups blend like a sprayed finish, lays out when brushed like nothing I have ever seen. Low odor, great sheen level. I wish more people had it nearby.
I'd try it in a heartbeat if it were available around here.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:24 PM   #48
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PACman....any experience with Muralo ultra and how it compares with Ultraplate?
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:23 PM   #49
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PACman....any experience with Muralo ultra and how it compares with Ultraplate?
I don't have any personal experience with the Muralo products. They are owned by California but my rep hasn't gotten me any Muralo samples to play with yet. It's starting to piss me off to be honest because I have heard quite a few good things about the Muralo lines from local painters that used it "years" ago.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:13 PM   #50
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I don't have any personal experience with the Muralo products. They are owned by California but my rep hasn't gotten me any Muralo samples to play with yet. It's starting to piss me off to be honest because I have heard quite a few good things about the Muralo lines from local painters that used it "years" ago.

My BM dealer has it on the shelf and would like to try it (before it's no longer on the shelf). Not sure they move a lot of it, but I could be wrong. Haven't seen Seth the Painter on here in a while, but he's a big fan of the Muralo. It's cost about 35%-40% more than Advance--a least how I was quoted.


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Old 01-21-2016, 04:49 PM   #51
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My BM dealer has it on the shelf and would like to try it (before it's no longer on the shelf). Not sure they move a lot of it, but I could be wrong. Haven't seen Seth the Painter on here in a while, but he's a big fan of the Muralo. It's cost about 35%-40% more than Advance--a least how I was quoted.


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It's priced pretty high by most retailers. Usually around $70 for semi-gloss retail. They don't actually have a suggested retail price on it so the dealers can pretty much do what they want with it, same as California. Ben Moore generally likes to keep a little tighter rein on retail pricing so it tends to be a little more consistent. The dealers can discount it as much as they want but if they go to low they lose the advertising funds BM provides them.

Did Seth the Painter get banned?
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:40 PM   #52
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I had the opportunity to use muralo years ago. I don't remember what line it was but it was among some if the best paints I ever used.

Unfortunately the only store that sold it was owned by a competitor of mine so I didn't shop there.

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Old 01-21-2016, 11:30 PM   #53
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It's priced pretty high by most retailers. Usually around $70 for semi-gloss retail. They don't actually have a suggested retail price on it so the dealers can pretty much do what they want with it, same as California. Ben Moore generally likes to keep a little tighter rein on retail pricing so it tends to be a little more consistent. The dealers can discount it as much as they want but if they go to low they lose the advertising funds BM provides them.



Did Seth the Painter get banned?

IIIRC, about $70 is the price I was given.




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Old 01-22-2016, 12:15 PM   #54
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So someone here suggested the Zibra brush. I am still dealing with some gloss paint issues, so I bought one to try it out.

I loved the feel of the brush. It did an okay job with the paint. As Jim Mays pointed out, it is best not to overwork it. The brush did a better job than everything else I tried, but for gloss, meh. I wish I knew how to spray.

However, I could see me using this brush and loving it on other projects.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:24 PM   #55
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So someone here suggested the Zibra brush. I am still dealing with some gloss paint issues, so I bought one to try it out.

I loved the feel of the brush. It did an okay job with the paint. As Jim Mays pointed out, it is best not to overwork it. The brush did a better job than everything else I tried, but for gloss, meh. I wish I knew how to spray.

However, I could see me using this brush and loving it on other projects.
It's never to late to learn. With the type of work you do, you'd get a lot of use out of a good HVLP unit. And you have a whole panel of experts here to get you up to speed in no time. Plus you'd have me to lend moral support.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:30 PM   #56
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Awww, thanks,Big Daddy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:57 PM   #57
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The multi surface has me excited. As far it seems to have all the qualities I love about breakthrough without all the drawbacks I hate. I'll know more on a couple days when I'm done playing around with it.
Keep us posted.

Even start a new thread about it if it turns out to be worthy.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:07 AM   #58
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Seems like that is a one to one correspondence. The better a paint levels, the more it has to move after application .

A greater propensity to run, sag, or pool seems synonymous with leveling qualities to me. How else could a coating level except to move somewhat during the drying process.




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Exactly. Which logically leads to the issue of applying the proper wet mils.

Too thick and it will run and sag. Too thin, it'll dry before it has a chance to level.
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Old 01-23-2016, 05:06 AM   #59
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To go back to the title of this thread. It seems to me that if you use a brush to paint with, you are going to have brush marks.

PERIOD, enough said.
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Old 01-23-2016, 05:40 AM   #60
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To go back to the title of this thread. It seems to me that if you use a brush to paint with, you are going to have brush marks.

PERIOD, enough said.
Pretty much.

Usually the only way to avoid it is with a good product that levels well and just a little bit of technique.

I like using syntox brushes. Soft and with a little practice laying off, you minimize marks.

Want a spray finish....spray.
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