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Old 11-13-2012, 06:25 PM   #1
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Default Level 5

Hello again,

Fellow Canadians can correct me, but there really is nothing known as such around here... at least, it is very rare. Most drywallers do not have a clue... Last (and 1st) level 5 we did, we had to reglaze the whole house because of uneven perch sanding... nightmare!
This type of work is very high end and I have one coming up. I'd like to get inputs from you that are used to work with level 5 requirements.
I am also interested in knowing what kind of primer you use (I am planning on using Zinsser 123)http://www.rustoleum.ca/cbgproduct.asp?pid=109 but am very open to suggestions.
I plan on shooting the primer with no back rolling and mechanically sand walls and ceilings. (20 000 sq ft total)
I also plan on shooting the ceilings.
Thanks in advance
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:04 PM   #2
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Most of the drywall you will see is level 4 (eggshell max). A full level 5 is a complete skim coat over a level 4. It is intended for satin, semi and gloss paints. I will level 5 critical lighting wall once in a while.

I reference ASTM 840 and GA 216 in all my paint and drywall quotations. You should go to gypsum.or and download their hand book.

This is from MPI below

LEVELS OF FINISH
Level 0 No taping, finishing or corner beads are required.
Level 1 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges shall be acceptable.
Level 2 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with a coat of joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges are acceptable.
Joint compound applied over the body of the tape at the time of tape embedment shall be considered a separate coat of joint compound and shall satisfy the conditions of this level.
Level 3 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. One additional coat of joint compound shall be applied over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with two separate coats of joint compound. All joint compounds shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1). The prepared surface shall be covered with a drywall primer prior to the application of the final decoration.
Level 4 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Two separate coats of joint compound shall be applied over all flat joints. One separate coat of joint compound shall be applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. All joint compounds shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1). The prepared surface shall be covered with a drywall primer prior to the application of the final decoration.
Level 5 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Two separate coats of joint compound shall be applied over all flat joints. One separate coat of joint compound shall be applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. A thin skim coat of joint compound shall be trowel-applied to the entire surface. Excess compound is immediately sheared off, leaving a film of skim coating compound completely covering the paper. As an alternate to a skim coat, a material manufactured especially for this purpose shall be applied. The surface shall be smooth and free of toll marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1).
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:29 PM   #3
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Im thinking of a pva primer instead of the 123. Also back roll those ceilings with a quality roller cover meant for smooth/extra smooth walls.

Is it raw drywall? Skip the pva primer if they aren't.

Last edited by johnny949; 11-13-2012 at 08:39 PM.. Reason: Raw drywall?
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:40 PM   #4
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We're spraying level five on condos right now. The tapers give us a level 4 finish and we're spraying skim coat onto that. We're taking the skim coat, drop in a little blue mud, add some water, beat it up but good then shoot it on with a slow stroker and a .635 tip. It's layin down pretty nice and looks better than level four but it is still drywall. And I do think a troweled on level five to give a better finish but the spray on method has got to be at least ten to twenty times ( I'm guessing here) faster.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:42 PM   #5
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Backroll everything. You'll be much happier with the result. Is it plaster or sandable joint compound?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROOMINADAY View Post
Most of the drywall you will see is level 4 (eggshell max). A full level 5 is a complete skim coat over a level 4. It is intended for satin, semi and gloss paints. I will level 5 critical lighting wall once in a while.

I reference ASTM 840 and GA 216 in all my paint and drywall quotations. You should go to gypsum.or and download their hand book.

This is from MPI below

LEVELS OF FINISH
Level 0 No taping, finishing or corner beads are required.
Level 1 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges shall be acceptable.
Level 2 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with a coat of joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges are acceptable.
Joint compound applied over the body of the tape at the time of tape embedment shall be considered a separate coat of joint compound and shall satisfy the conditions of this level.
Level 3 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. One additional coat of joint compound shall be applied over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with two separate coats of joint compound. All joint compounds shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1). The prepared surface shall be covered with a drywall primer prior to the application of the final decoration.
Level 4 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Two separate coats of joint compound shall be applied over all flat joints. One separate coat of joint compound shall be applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. All joint compounds shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1). The prepared surface shall be covered with a drywall primer prior to the application of the final decoration.
Level 5 All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and shall be immediately wiped with a joint knife or trowel leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Two separate coats of joint compound shall be applied over all flat joints. One separate coat of joint compound shall be applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. A thin skim coat of joint compound shall be trowel-applied to the entire surface. Excess compound is immediately sheared off, leaving a film of skim coating compound completely covering the paper. As an alternate to a skim coat, a material manufactured especially for this purpose shall be applied. The surface shall be smooth and free of toll marks and ridges (see 22.4.1.1).
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
then shoot it on with a slow stroker and a .635 tip.
Can you clarify what you mean by a slow stroker? I guessing it's a type of sprayer for drywall mud.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
Can you clarify what you mean by a slow stroker? I guessing it's a type of sprayer for drywall mud.
we call any pump capable of throwing block fill a slow stroker, kinda comes from the way the piston just you know, it slow strokes,
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Backroll everything. You'll be much happier with the result. Is it plaster or sandable joint compound?
Its joint compound. What do you mean by I'll be happier with the result? Less sanding?
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny949 View Post
Im thinking of a pva primer instead of the 123. Also back roll those ceilings with a quality roller cover meant for smooth/extra smooth walls.

Is it raw drywall? Skip the pva primer if they aren't.
Yes it is new walls. Can I ask why you'd prefer pva primer ?

I'm sorry Im asking tons of questions, I really appreciate the ton of knowledge gathered here!
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:20 PM   #11
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It's so easy to have blinders on and never think about using tools or sprayers in other ways than what you are used to doing with them. How often have I used or walked past one of the big pumps and never even thought that if you can spray something like block filler why couldn't I spray thinned down drywall mud!
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
We're spraying level five on condos right now. The tapers give us a level 4 finish and we're spraying skim coat onto that. We're taking the skim coat, drop in a little blue mud, add some water, beat it up but good then shoot it on with a slow stroker and a .635 tip. It's layin down pretty nice and looks better than level four but it is still drywall. And I do think a troweled on level five to give a better finish but the spray on method has got to be at least ten to twenty times ( I'm guessing here) faster.
I'm happy to hear 'bout that, I wal looking at Lvl5 videos on yt and was thinking that would be a good idea. That's something that really would simplify the life of both the plasterer and the painter...
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:12 AM   #13
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That drywall needs to be sealed. That zinser 123 will work, but I prefer a pva primer that is meant for fresh drywall.

And he said backroll so the paint penetrates and bonds to the surface and if there is touch up it won't flash.

Last edited by johnny949; 11-14-2012 at 01:15 AM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:51 AM   #14
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Has anyone got a high quality image of a level 5 wall. I just gave a job away because the plasterer would not provide a level five finish. If I knew I could spray with a 635 tip I would have done it myself


I did not mean that oh, I could have done this easily. At least I could have done some tests to see the result.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:42 AM   #15
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Has anyone got a high quality image of a level 5 wall. I just gave a job away because the plasterer would not provide a level five finish. If I knew I could spray with a 635 tip I would have done it myself
A level 5 evens out the porosity and texture of the Gyproc sheets. In the end you have a wall that that is comparably smooth as a plaster wall and you can roll on gloss and not see the ghosting and telegraphing of the drywall joints and drywall paper. Here is a picture I found on the web (gardenweb). It is really fast to skim a whole house and sanding is actually easier.

A sprayed level 5 will look like a white wall. It is a heavy bodied undercoat that builds. Here is an example of a product. You can mix compound thin and spray it as well.

http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-tuff-hi...-surfacer.html
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