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-   -   Liquid Mask & Stain Question (https://www.painttalk.com/f6/liquid-mask-stain-question-23792/)

woodcoyote 05-15-2013 12:35 AM

Liquid Mask & Stain Question
 
Hey everyone,

I got a quick question. I'm looking at doing some windows 10 or 12 that have the divided lights (mullions) in then. Problem being is
1.) The aren't removable/snap in type, they are built in/glued in place at the factory.
2.) They are clear pine wood clad windows, which means I have to treat them..well I want to do a conditioner on the wood before I stain it. Pine has a nasty of habit looking ugly without it.

My question is: Has anyone ever used the liquid stain in regards to staining?

Second question is: Will it save any time vs. conventional masking? Blue Tape + plastic? I'm thinking of brushing the liquid mask on/rolling larger sections with a weenie roller/mini roller if I have to cover larger spaces of glass.

I saw a bunch of posts regarding painting it and peeling it off the glass and whether or not it can be used as a primer or not, etc. But no one has mentioned anything about staining. I know it can't be stained over, at least I'm 90% sure that's not the case, but has anyone had any success with it?

I'm wanting to pre-condition/wash coat the wood, stain it, and top coat it (2 coats). I want to do a spray applied because it's going to give me a better finish overall and will go a hell of a lot faster than doing all that by hand with a brush.

Thanks in advance!

Damon T 05-15-2013 01:39 AM

152 Attachment(s)
I don't see how you could apply the liquid mask prior to staining as you would seal some of the wood. I have used it successfully when painting. You just have to put it on thick enough, as if not then it is hard to peel off.
I would just mask with paper and tape on this one.

woodcoyote 05-15-2013 10:23 AM

I was planning on cutting it in. The liquid mask that is, by brush. I was thinking if I could brush it on the window pane it would avoid having to make and cut those little pieces of window where the mullions divide the glass up.

I'll probably just end up masking it with frog and plastic, maybe paper. My problem with paper is that it doesn't hold up too well sometimes when you spray a lot of water based stuff on it and then it also blocks light and I can't see the spray piece. There is no electricity right now as we're under construction so the only light really is just the windows (spray piece).

Just trying to find a way to speed it all up. :)

clermontpainting 05-15-2013 08:13 PM

we have primed with liquid mask, and painted with great results but never stained i don't think it will work as it will seal the wood and not allow the stain to penetrate. just my two cents:whistling2:

woodcoyote 05-15-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clermontpainting (Post 403944)
we have primed with liquid mask, and painted with great results but never stained i don't think it will work as it will seal the wood and not allow the stain to penetrate. just my two cents:whistling2:

Yeah I know you can't stain over it, the manufacturer even says it isn't a good idea.

But my question is: will it speed up production to use it on the window glass so I don't have to use tape/paper/plastic?

I obviously don't want to spray the glass with stain and then urethane lol. So either I have to mask it with tape/plastic OR possibly liquid masker if it might speed things up.

Damon T 05-16-2013 12:53 AM

152 Attachment(s)
I think as careful as you would have to be, and with the risk of splattering on the sash, the tape and paper or plastic is best.

woodcoyote 05-16-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon T (Post 404133)
I think as careful as you would have to be, and with the risk of splattering on the sash, the tape and paper or plastic is best.

Yeah plus the cost of actually buying the product and getting shipped, since it's not anywhere near being local.

Sigh, sounds like a frog tape and paper/plastic setup. Darn it. Maybe I can just pre-cut the sheets of paper to fit, help speed it up that way.

I got 12 windows or so to do and I'm trying to get them done in 2 days, 1 preferably, we'll see what ends up happening. :/

[email protected] 05-16-2013 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon T (Post 404133)
I think as careful as you would have to be, and with the risk of splattering on the sash, the tape and paper or plastic is best.


I agree for this situation. It seems you could mask faster and get better results with tape and paper than to spend the time cutting Mask to your window which has a risk factor. Frog tape and and maybe 2 sheets of paper if one is not sufficient seems more logical and well spent time.

woodcoyote 05-16-2013 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 404141)
I agree for this situation. It seems you could mask faster and get better results with tape and paper than to spend the time cutting Mask to your window which has a risk factor. Frog tape and and maybe 2 sheets of paper if one is not sufficient seems more logical and well spent time.

Yeah you figure a small painter's knife, 1 larger roll of paper, and 2 rolls of green frog tape. Like $20 to do all the windows, material wise for masking. Meh, might as well.

premierpainter 05-16-2013 06:45 AM

Stain will not work with LM. It will soak through. Call me crazy, but, Staining 12 windows will take longer than two days due to drying times. Not gonna happen

woodcoyote 05-16-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premierpainter (Post 404162)
Stain will not work with LM. It will soak through. Call me crazy, but, Staining 12 windows will take longer than two days due to drying times. Not gonna happen

It's called magic... I mean, wb systems. ;)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT 05-20-2013 09:46 PM

One thing to be careful of is the stain bleeding under the LM or the tape and being seen from the other side of the window. This is especially true of a divided light system that is not flat to the panes.In this case LM is prob. the way to go because it would seal it somewhat. Put it on super thick.
https://www.painttalk.com/members/iha...-brush-set.jpg

woodcoyote 05-21-2013 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (Post 405608)
One thing to be careful of is the stain bleeding under the LM or the tape and being seen from the other side of the window. This is especially true of a divided light system that is not flat to the panes.In this case LM is prob. the way to go because it would seal it somewhat. Put it on super thick.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. Get the creep factor in there, but that's why I was willing to spend a little more and utilize the frog tape. Pre-wet the edges once it's on and hopefully it'll stop any bleed through that might occur.

I'm just worried that with applying the L.M. that if it come in contact with the wood it won't stain up correctly, even if I sand. It's like getting sheetrock mud on wood, the stuff reacts with the tanins in the wood and shows up in coloring stages.

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT 05-21-2013 03:48 AM

Staining prob. won't be an issue especially if you planned on sealing the pine/fir with a stain controller (shellac). You gunna use Gel stain?

woodcoyote 05-21-2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (Post 405673)
Staining prob. won't be an issue especially if you planned on sealing the pine/fir with a stain controller (shellac). You gunna use Gel stain?

I'll probably end up sealing the wood with a shellac mix, sprayed on, excess wiped off.

No I plan on using a general finishes 450 exterior stain on the wood along with their exterior 450 top coat.

The reason being is the light issue. I know it isn't a big deal seeing as how it's inside and the windows are nice low-e, argon gas filled, BUT I know that if I do it this way it'll last as long as possible and will resist fading greatly. Over kill? Perhaps..call backs? 0.

The windows will all be sprayed, the only thing related to hand work will be wiping excess wash/stain off. That's it.

michael tust 05-23-2013 05:20 AM

Woodcoyote ,

I can tell you what I would do... When I Grained the Poolhouse,it had Lots of Lights on the Doors and Windows so I cut in a 2 inch area around each light.... Then I used Saran Wrap in the center as it Clings to the Glass... You can shape it fairly quick... I stuck it about an inch or less to the wood,covering the centers.... Since I was Graining, I had to do a total of 7 layers..... This way your sealed ... And you have light to see... Saran Wrap is Great for this... When finished , razor edges ,and peel.... Even if you undercut by a hair... Just razor... Better then sealing the wood... Then you can blow through the spit coat / Conditioner .... As all mentioned... Put it on Thick.... I brush 2 coats... I usually use Gel Staines Also...


Michael Tust

woodcoyote 05-23-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael tust (Post 406116)
Woodcoyote ,

I can tell you what I would do... When I Grained the Poolhouse,it had Lots of Lights on the Doors and Windows so I cut in a 2 inch area around each light.... Then I used Saran Wrap in the center as it Clings to the Glass... You can shape it fairly quick... I stuck it about an inch or less to the wood,covering the centers.... Since I was Graining, I had to do a total of 7 layers..... This way your sealed ... And you have light to see... Saran Wrap is Great for this... When finished , razor edges ,and peel.... Even if you undercut by a hair... Just razor... Better then sealing the wood... Then you can blow through the spit coat / Conditioner .... As all mentioned... Put it on Thick.... I brush 2 coats... I usually use Gel Staines Also...


Michael Tust

Never thought of using saran wrap, interesting. It should hold up with spraying and water dunno about alcohol though. I might have to try some test samples and see how it goes. Good idea! ;)

jack pauhl 05-31-2013 01:29 AM

No way I would waste time masking taping anything. I would grab a 2.5" angular stain brush and be the boss of those windows. Keep a rag handy wrapped around 1.5" putty knife and use it to catch anything you loose control of. Keep the glass clean with the rag when necessary.

I also would not spray those. I would want to make certain those windows are saturated with clear and force clear into important areas.

squid 05-31-2013 09:28 AM

I agree. I don't know how you could spray and get a good seal. But I won't underestimate your abilities, I can tell from your posts you know what your doing.

woodcoyote 06-01-2013 12:56 AM

I'll have to take some pictures of the windows/doors when I get a chance.

I was thinking a brush too, but the issue is they are pine, and it has a tendency to blotch. I like to washcoat my pine before I stain, it's water based, which raises the grain, needing sanding, etc. I was thinking of just taping it off and spraying the washcoat, sanding, and spraying/wiping the stain, to make it faster. Without the washcoat I might consider a brush.

You can get a good seal on these windows by spraying I believe, again I'll have to post some pictures next week to get a better idea.


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