masonite metal doors-big prob. - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default masonite metal doors-big prob.

ok. really I have been painting since 1990. I am having some major learning curve. I DO NOT get to make every choice on this NC job.

I was brought two doors from a separate job to work on at this exsiting job. I was told they were pre-primed metal clad. I called SW to inquire into what to use...I was told I could use either DTM or All Surface Enamel. I did not want to use oil and I wanted to spray them at the shop.........

there was not time to take them from their 2nd location to a third location further away to spray. It is color of Bitter -chocolate which is Ultra deep base....I know I am in for atleast 3.---

I did not do further investigation on these doors and proceeded with the DTM( I would have gone the direction of All surface enamel)

Now I spent the day stripping them as it did not adhere at all....and the stipple is way terrible. I have used a tight-weenie nap to roll an exterior door and lay it off tightly so it lays nicely and has a minor stipple.

These doors are being used for a pool house bathroom....not that that changes anything but it is not like a fron door or interior doors.

I did not do enough homework. I still get paid. It was not ultimately my call- but I am pissed, humilitated and shocked with this blunder.

I have stripped the six panel smooth surface but have to go back and do the inserts and then I will power wash the stripper off.....

My answer is simple---it is always best to use a primer REGARDLESS in most circumstances.......don't think a factory finish means diddle.

would there have been some manufacterers directions upon delivery of the doots from - the sticker to the side saide masonite and lingo for fire protection rating.....

What sucks is it is ok to make mistake-
and have to redo it all- which just creates problems that could have been overlooked.

Give some input or advice ......please.

I have an airless-was concerned about having to buy even more material than one gallon to keep pressure and spray up........

have access to an HVLP but it is set up for lacquer spray......how difficult is the change over?

How to deal with this as a brush and roll job without oil and a nice lay off with the material after rolling.....I know about extenders/thinners....
what would be a bomb product that works like butter?

Is All Surface Enamel easier to work?
Is a primer necessary(contradiction)

wounded painter
sagebrush


I wanted to add that I can thin out oil and brush it out good enough under ideal cicumstances--but hate doing oil and did not have to wait between the coatings.....

Last edited by sagebrush123; 04-15-2011 at 07:38 PM..
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-15-2011, 07:48 PM   #2
Logistics
 
jack pauhl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 3,090
Rewards Points: 2,100
Thanks: 334
Thanked 852 Times in 605 Posts
View jack pauhl's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Good to know SW didn't limit themselves to just SuperPaint and Adhesion Primer when comes to adhesion.

I'll reply later. I'm driving.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jack pauhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 07:51 PM   #3
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Years ago I had the same issue with a masonite brand metal door from HD. I ended up scraping the paint off eith a putty knife, sanding, priming amd repainting. I think the hd doors tried to be primed or finished with the same eggshell sheen baked on finish by the factory.
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #4
Paint Store Owner
 
NCPaint1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,550
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 2,995 Times in 1,802 Posts
View NCPaint1's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Get a pro shot, or a Tru coat plus electric.

How long was it between applying the paint and the issue with adhesion? DTM's dry hard, but are really soft when they first dry.
__________________
Benjamin Moore, PPG, Sikkens, TWP, Wood Defender, Airless Sales and Service


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NCPaint1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default

you guys are going to post and I thnak you, however I notice that I am so mad with my own steps that nothing anyone can say will make it go away.

It is not only the anger at removing the paint but the difficulty of stripping them...it is a goopin' f' mess.

and my ideas of how I 'feel' about it make sense to me.....

I would have preferred to move the doors to an incognito location...as in I don't want the whole world to see this blunder......
I don't think it makes for good business to have an ugly lingering issue in someone else's garage.....

I will however take the advice as to not duplicate the error and MAKE myself take the necessary steps to allow time to configue a 'what to do plan when there is the slightest apprehension/doubt.

the day I put on three coats, at the end of the day...I noticed bad adhesion accidently.....and I was patient to check again this morning.

Please don't give me the 14 day cure bull**** time frame.......I don't care how hard it gets!

and the texture was screwy.....I am interested to see if anyone else chimes in with the ability to brush/roll without funkyness texture from the product.....

I could peel away huge bits like saran wrap.......

further more not too sure of the proshot, but if it is the junk from tradewinds...or the homeowner/remodeling sprayers that are being sold at SW-you can forget about me buying one.

Either I find my way around the issue OR i find the money to get the right tools OR I don't take on the work.

Can't remember WHEN I had this kind of issue in my entire profession/history.

I was also told that I should use the adhesion primer.
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 11:28 PM   #6
Paint Store Owner
 
NCPaint1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,550
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 2,995 Times in 1,802 Posts
View NCPaint1's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Ok, its not 14 days, its closer to 30 with most acrylics. What's the recoat time on that product?
__________________
Benjamin Moore, PPG, Sikkens, TWP, Wood Defender, Airless Sales and Service


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NCPaint1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 11:35 PM   #7
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

If you want, hvlp cup guns are easy to change between lacquer and acrylic, not much passade length to worry about.
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 12:19 AM   #8
RPS
Painting Contractor
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 253
Rewards Points: 250
Thanks: 53
Thanked 64 Times in 49 Posts
View RPS's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Dtm sucks to roll. Leaves a retarded stiple. You can go with oil and roll with a 1/4 inch nap rolor and get a nice finish. I wonder if you should wipe them down with lacquer? Is the skin masonite or metal?
RPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 01:18 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
TheRogueBristle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 647
Rewards Points: 508
Thanks: 137
Thanked 173 Times in 129 Posts
View TheRogueBristle's Photo Album My Photos
Default

The DTM's I've used, I've been told by others not to roll, and it said on the can to use a very thin roller, like 1/4", which it sound like you did. This obviously shouldn't affect adhesion though.

If you have a difficult color I think it makes sense to use a tinted primer first- it's cheaper than the finish paint and has the added benefit of providing bond and good tooth for subsequent coats. Others may have a better idea on this, but I don't really se where you can go wrong with a primer, only that sometimes it's unnecessary.

I know how it sucks to have outside pressures and constraints on a job, especially when they contradict your first instincts on how to get the job done well. But I'm not sure I'm exactly following your problem here. Adhesion was the big problem, but you also seem dissatisfied with the finish you got. Airless may have saved you time and given better results, but not fixed the adhesion problems.
__________________
Zen Master Unmon said: “The world is vast and wide. Why do you drive to work at the sound of the alarm clock?”
TheRogueBristle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 11:46 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 72
Rewards Points: 101
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
View mastr's Photo Album My Photos
Default

dtm performs better than all surface enamel.

a better and heavier duty option (than DTM) would be to prime with pro-cryl and top coat with a catalyzed epoxy
mastr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mastr For This Useful Post:
NEPS.US (04-16-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:59 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I don't have a conversion on the HVLP available right now. I would have to have SW order it for me.

The store here is limited. I wanted a new spray hose and they don't have one.......and something I call a whip for flexibility attaching to the gun and hose....don't have that either. There must not be alot of spraying going on in this area, except maybe industrial...like chemical plants.etc.

anyway......

I have the airless and can go to a smaller fan size and output.

and I may have to buy extra material to keep the lines pressured.

unless someone chimes in with a workable primer for metal doors and a top coat that is somewhat more workable than DTM.

the precat epoxy-is that brushable? I have never used that before.....

I looked it up online but didn't get applications....


i APPRECIATE any and all input, as this has been a toughy for me to digest.

where did you go Jack pauhl? are you still driving
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 10:55 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 72
Rewards Points: 101
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
View mastr's Photo Album My Photos
Default

pro-cryl is an excellent option for a primer

pre-catalyzed epoxy would be the next step above DTM and is an entry level epoxy. (you can brush/roll it)

catalyzed epoxies are a step above the precat in terms of durability and performance.
mastr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 11:11 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default

ok master-

it can be brushed and rolled? How textury can it get?

just using a tight nap with basic latex on a panelled wood door...I can get it to lay down fairly nice....

DTM- no way...

so how nice does it lay down and what kind of workability might I have to flow with the smooth sections of the door?

I will look into this....

yes!yes!
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 12:01 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 72
Rewards Points: 101
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
View mastr's Photo Album My Photos
Default

i thought we were talking about metal doors, i take back my statement....pro-cryl is not going to be a good primer for wood paneling
mastr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 08:05 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default

NO- the doors are metal, I am just saying that I can get by rolling brushing regular six panel smooth wood doors by rolling tight or brushing with with thinned oil.......
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 09:56 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 158
Thanked 145 Times in 107 Posts
View sagebrush123's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Problem solved.
stripper
powerwash
primer.

damn-its all down hill from here.
sagebrush123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 01:09 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 110
Rewards Points: 79
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
View Contractor Jeff's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Just an observation and my sympathies. The factory primed surface SHOULD have had enough built in "tack" to allow any paint to adhere (you would think).

One factor that may have contributed to the lack of adhesion is the deep base used.
Contractor Jeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 02:18 PM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Rewards Points: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
View ellas70's Photo Album My Photos
Default

i coat the doors with gripper then use exterior paint to go over the gripper
dtm dry to fast and i dont like look it give when it dries dries
ellas70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
too cold for metal doors? TJ Paint Surface Preparation and Application 17 10-24-2010 03:45 PM
Wood graining metal doors Roadog Photos of Project and Equipment 15 03-18-2010 11:10 AM
Painting Metal Louvered Doors (oil and latex) mjkpainting General Painting Discussion 4 12-18-2008 09:51 AM
woodgrain on metal doors fletch007 Specialty Coatings 22 05-01-2008 08:01 AM
Prep for spraying latex on metal Garage doors Sunset_Painter Surface Preparation and Application 7 04-16-2008 02:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com