My third paint failure - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2015, 12:40 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
journeymanPainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Vancouver(surrounding area) BC
Posts: 2,926
Rewards Points: 686
Thanks: 3,276
Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,065 Posts
View journeymanPainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default My third paint failure

Do you guys have any idea how this could happen?

Sanded, dusted, sprayed 2 coats of black Diamond satin.

Both doors are pretty much in the sun all day. Both doors have been painted before (with Benjamin Moore) one door is aluminum, the door that failed is wood. It bubbled in spots (several days after painting) and went straight to the factory primer.

My third paint failure-uploadfromtaptalk1433993808601.jpgMy third paint failure-uploadfromtaptalk1433993844410.jpg
journeymanPainter is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-11-2015, 12:51 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,304
Rewards Points: 894
Thanks: 81
Thanked 593 Times in 387 Posts
View jacob33's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I have seen dark colors that get alot of sun do that especially in the acrylic. I think the acrylic expands and contracts too much with the temperature change but that is just my theory it could be wrong. I'm guessing it is acrylic on there. It could be that there is moisture in the wood as well some how and that the extra heat is causing the moisture to force its way out.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jacob33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:59 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,425
Rewards Points: 250
Thanks: 371
Thanked 1,034 Times in 554 Posts
View Painter-Aaron's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymanPainter View Post
Do you guys have any idea how this could happen?

Sanded, dusted, sprayed 2 coats of black Diamond satin.

Both doors are pretty much in the sun all day. Both doors have been painted before (with Benjamin Moore) one door is aluminum, the door that failed is wood. It bubbled in spots (several days after painting) and went straight to the factory primer.

Attachment 51818Attachment 51826
I see it a lot now. Where I coat something that had paint on it previously. The new paints have such an aggressive bite that it pulls the previous coat up and causes it to bubble.
Everywhere that was bare wood and primed and painted would be fine but bubbles where it wasn't bare
Painter-Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-11-2015, 03:56 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,876
Rewards Points: 1,138
Thanks: 339
Thanked 1,017 Times in 650 Posts
View MikeCalifornia's Photo Album My Photos
Default

If it is a new door, the heat generated from the paint color will bring solvents to the surface from the interior of the door. Oil enamel always solves the problem.
MikeCalifornia is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeCalifornia For This Useful Post:
Criard (06-15-2015), PRC (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 07:10 AM   #5
PinheadsUnite
 
daArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: almost there
Posts: 30,724
Rewards Points: 1,696
Thanks: 13,929
Thanked 17,336 Times in 10,141 Posts
View daArch's Photo Album My Photos
Default

is it a coincidence that the spots are about the size of a lacrosse ball? and that the weapon it was projected from is right by the door? I'm surprised no windows are broken.



__________________
"Glazed Donuts Are the Building Blocks of the Universe"

"Are we having fun yet"
daArch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to daArch For This Useful Post:
CApainter (06-11-2015), journeymanPainter (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 03:59 PM   #6
Troy
 
stelzerpaintinginc.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,921
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 2,049
Thanked 2,564 Times in 1,129 Posts
View stelzerpaintinginc.'s Photo Album My Photos
Default

Since the bubbles only go to the primer and not the substrate, you can pretty much rule out moisture.
Since the bubbles are only on the sides of the doors, you can almost rule out surface temp
That leaves 2 viable causes IMHO:
-surface contamination, (doubt it, but possible).
-re-coating before the first coat was sufficiently dry, (my best guess). Think about it...when you spray a door and you're waiting for it to dry, where's the last places on the door to dry? The edges...partially obscured from the sun even on a sunny day. So, you checked the door before putting on your 2nd coat, everything was dry to the touch, but those edges were just barely dry. Second coat goes on, gets nice and sunny out, second coat dries quickly. Meanwhile, first coat is still trying to dry, evap, etc.

As far as that one lonely little bubble in the upper-middle of the door which nearly shoots down my otherwise wonderful theory, well, that was either from you making an additional pass trying to cover a light-spot on the lower inner-part of the french pane, or it was the government.
__________________
Troy Stevens, Stelzer Painting Inc.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stelzerpaintinginc. is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to stelzerpaintinginc. For This Useful Post:
CApainter (06-11-2015), DrakeB (06-16-2015), journeymanPainter (06-11-2015), jprefect (06-16-2015), NACE (06-18-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 04:35 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,452
Rewards Points: 2,044
Thanks: 11,203
Thanked 9,606 Times in 5,458 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch View Post
is it a coincidence that the spots are about the size of a lacrosse ball? and that the weapon it was projected from is right by the door? I'm surprised no windows are broken.
Good call Bill! I thought that was a cat litter scoop.
CApainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CApainter For This Useful Post:
daArch (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 09:23 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
journeymanPainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Vancouver(surrounding area) BC
Posts: 2,926
Rewards Points: 686
Thanks: 3,276
Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,065 Posts
View journeymanPainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelzerpaintinginc. View Post
Since the bubbles only go to the primer and not the substrate, you can pretty much rule out moisture.
Since the bubbles are only on the sides of the doors, you can almost rule out surface temp
That leaves 2 viable causes IMHO:
-surface contamination, (doubt it, but possible).
-re-coating before the first coat was sufficiently dry, (my best guess). Think about it...when you spray a door and you're waiting for it to dry, where's the last places on the door to dry? The edges...partially obscured from the sun even on a sunny day. So, you checked the door before putting on your 2nd coat, everything was dry to the touch, but those edges were just barely dry. Second coat goes on, gets nice and sunny out, second coat dries quickly. Meanwhile, first coat is still trying to dry, evap, etc.

As far as that one lonely little bubble in the upper-middle of the door which nearly shoots down my otherwise wonderful theory, well, that was either from you making an additional pass trying to cover a light-spot on the lower inner-part of the french pane, or it was the government.
I would almost have to agree with you BUT I waited 4 hours between coats, and the door beside it is fine.

Turned out to be a solvent issue. Sent all the info and pictures to my rep, he said it's happened before, but rarely does so he gave me a free gallon of breakthrough

My third paint failure-uploadfromtaptalk1434068448793.jpg

This is where I left off today (minus the primer)
journeymanPainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to journeymanPainter For This Useful Post:
stelzerpaintinginc. (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 10:23 PM   #9
Troy
 
stelzerpaintinginc.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,921
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 2,049
Thanked 2,564 Times in 1,129 Posts
View stelzerpaintinginc.'s Photo Album My Photos
Default

Figured the other door was fine because it was in the sun more and first coat dried quicker. Didn't know you waited 4 hrs between coats. Solvent issue, like entrapment or containment? Either way, I still win.

Seriously though, glad it all worked out for you. Please elaborate on the actual problem your rep said it was. I'm terribly vexed now.
__________________
Troy Stevens, Stelzer Painting Inc.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stelzerpaintinginc. is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stelzerpaintinginc. For This Useful Post:
DrakeB (06-16-2015)
Old 06-12-2015, 01:54 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
journeymanPainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Vancouver(surrounding area) BC
Posts: 2,926
Rewards Points: 686
Thanks: 3,276
Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,065 Posts
View journeymanPainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelzerpaintinginc. View Post
figured the other door was fine because it was in the sun more and first coat dried quicker. Didn't know you waited 4 hrs between coats. Solvent issue, like entrapment or containment? Either way, i still win.

Seriously though, glad it all worked out for you. Please elaborate on the actual problem your rep said it was. I'm terribly vexed now.
My third paint failure-uploadfromtaptalk1434084838265.jpg
journeymanPainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to journeymanPainter For This Useful Post:
jprefect (06-16-2015), stelzerpaintinginc. (06-12-2015)
Old 06-12-2015, 02:30 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
JourneymanBrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 170
Rewards Points: 36
Thanks: 52
Thanked 84 Times in 45 Posts
View JourneymanBrian's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Could it be resin coming out in the heat?
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2015, 06:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 174
Rewards Points: 263
Thanks: 26
Thanked 106 Times in 70 Posts
View Criard's Photo Album My Photos
Default

With a pH of 9.3 and a possible propylene glycol content of 5%?
http://www.dulux.ca/PPG/Dulux/Media/...n.pdf?ext=.pdf

Yeah, I'd say that Diamond is definitely strong enough to soften and make unsound (or less strong) previous coating fail.


If the rep hadn't pointed that out, I too would have thought it would be something to do with the acrylic not curing enough before being exposed to harsh conditions (black in direct sun and intense flexing/contracting).
Criard is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Criard For This Useful Post:
journeymanPainter (06-16-2015)
Old 06-16-2015, 12:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
jprefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New London, CT
Posts: 160
Rewards Points: 272
Thanks: 220
Thanked 58 Times in 37 Posts
View jprefect's Photo Album My Photos
Default

What's Diamond? Is that sw?
jprefect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2015, 10:28 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,373
Rewards Points: 764
Thanks: 4,849
Thanked 1,821 Times in 1,136 Posts
View DrakeB's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I'm wondering if whoever did the original finish didn't do any primer over the factory primer. We all know factory primer is about as useful as a fish without gills. If it wasn't primed (again) before the original coat, the original coat may not have adhered particularly well anyways, which would explain your product pulling it off.
DrakeB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DrakeB For This Useful Post:
Gough (06-16-2015)
Old 06-16-2015, 10:51 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
journeymanPainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Vancouver(surrounding area) BC
Posts: 2,926
Rewards Points: 686
Thanks: 3,276
Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,065 Posts
View journeymanPainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jprefect View Post
What's Diamond? Is that sw?
Dulux
journeymanPainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to journeymanPainter For This Useful Post:
jprefect (07-03-2015)
Old 06-16-2015, 03:43 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,174
Rewards Points: 2,658
Thanks: 5,206
Thanked 6,792 Times in 4,040 Posts
View ewingpainting.net's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Sand, spot prime and paint. Easy fix. I would relate the failure to color and heat. I give warnings to dark colors on doors. I've seen a dark mahogany color put a bubble in the fiberglass of a door, the size of a basketball.
ewingpainting.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2015, 05:22 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
journeymanPainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Vancouver(surrounding area) BC
Posts: 2,926
Rewards Points: 686
Thanks: 3,276
Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,065 Posts
View journeymanPainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewingpainting.net View Post
Sand, spot prime and paint. Easy fix. I would relate the failure to color and heat. I give warnings to dark colors on doors. I've seen a dark mahogany color put a bubble in the fiberglass of a door, the size of a basketball.
Sanded as smooth as I could (lots of older layers of paint) primed everywhere the I sanded, saved the primer smooth, then 3 coats of breakthrough. Looks awesome and of course I forgot to take pictures of it.

What I loved about the breakthrough was as I was finishing the door where I started was already drying
journeymanPainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to journeymanPainter For This Useful Post:
Surreal Painting (06-24-2015)
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paint failure - help! FirstVTOdyssey General Painting Discussion 53 08-25-2014 03:24 AM
Paint Failure vermontpainter Surface Preparation and Application 44 10-03-2013 08:50 PM
Paint Failure!!! dubinpainting Surface Preparation and Application 23 01-27-2011 03:07 PM
Odd paint failure DeanV General Painting Discussion 19 05-29-2009 10:49 PM
paint Failure help needed Tonyg General Painting Discussion 18 06-18-2008 02:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com