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Old 03-24-2012, 01:24 PM   #1
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Default Need product knowledge

Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent (not super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling priming that works, but will limit splatter.
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent (not super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling priming that works, but will limit splatter.
Roll with coverstain half inch nap and roll slower, you should be fine......you can roll it now, don't need to wait long! Good luck
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Learning
Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent (not super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling pr,iming that works, but will limit splatter.
If the stain is in a small area(s) I use SW problock oil primer in the spray can. If it is the whole ceiling, take Will's advice.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #4
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We've all been there, so don't beat yourself up. Water base stain blocking primers have there place, but they are hit or miss. That's why I lean more to the oil one's, smell be dammed. Just follow Wills advise and you will be good.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:21 PM   #5
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Odorless, per Zinnser website, should function as needed. As you recommend cover stain, do you not like odorless, or just not as familiar? Owners do have minor health issues and do have pets. Also, as it is a ceiling, and to mitigate further loss, per the website, I have the option of leaving the Odorless as a finished surface? Can I do this with Cover Stain? The website didn't mention this. I want the result professional and passing even the discriminating eye. As it is a ceiling, washability is not an issue.

Thanks for the timing/cure advice. This is a small ranch home that has a continuous ceiling from kitchen, to living room, to hallways...... a costly mistake on my part. Do not want to make it worse. Understand my concern about making things worse when I ask, have you tried oil on what will be by Monday, 3 coats of day cured latex 4 days old(1 primer, 2 BM)?

No offense intended. Just covering bases. Thanks for taking your time to address my problem.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:34 PM   #6
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I haven't used the "oderless" yet, but my understanding is that its still toxic like all other oils. You just cant smell it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:54 PM   #7
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Per specs on website it is toxic upon spraying or sanding, but not for brush application.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:59 PM   #8
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Odorless, per Zinnser website, should function as needed. As you recommend cover stain, do you not like odorless, or just not as familiar? Owners do have minor health issues and do have pets. Also, as it is a ceiling, and to mitigate further loss, per the website, I have the option of leaving the Odorless as a finished surface? Can I do this with Cover Stain? The website didn't mention this. I want the result professional and passing even the discriminating eye. As it is a ceiling, washability is not an issue.

Thanks for the timing/cure advice. This is a small ranch home that has a continuous ceiling from kitchen, to living room, to hallways...... a costly mistake on my part. Do not want to make it worse. Understand my concern about making things worse when I ask, have you tried oil on what will be by Monday, 3 coats of day cured latex 4 days old(1 primer, 2 BM)?

No offense intended. Just covering bases. Thanks for taking your time to address my problem.

Yes, the oil version is designed to be used under and over any latex surface. May be top coated in two hours although I prefer to give it more time (around 6). I only use the oil (or shellac) based ones for any kind of staining issues.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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Research hound, does your reply infer youn have had to use oil primers over freshly painted latex that has shown bleadthrough, more than once?
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:14 PM   #10
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To edit my stated conditions, I last painted the ceiling this past Thursday with the 3 coats. I am hoping to repaint as soon as this coming Monday. Primer was intended to be just a sealer, and lacked pigment, so the old yellow still showed through almost as original. After 1 coat of BM ultra flat in white, it was not evident if what I was seeing was bleedthrough or just inability of pigments to cover the old creamy tan yellow color( about 3 samples down on a fan deck). Therefore I did not realize the problem until after the 3rd coat.

So, let me make it clear, I am asking about priming with oil on a freshly painted ceiling. Is your time frame as written still valid?
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:15 PM   #11
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Any primer should be left to dry 4 hrs. or more to be able to block stains. I would re prime with zinsser cover stain or zinssser bin primer and let it dry overnight to be on the safe side.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #12
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Thanks for the replies but please read the question more carefully, as I am concerned the responses are not addressing my initial question.

I am under the assumption I must use an oil based paint or primer to seal bleadthrough from nicotine. How long must I wait to repaint over freshly painted latex?

Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #13
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go ahead and prime it today and pain it tomorrow.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:27 PM   #14
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Research hound, does your reply infer youn have had to use oil primers over freshly painted latex that has shown bleadthrough, more than once?
Can't say I've recently used it over freshly painted latex since I use the oil based stain sealing primers as needed before top coating. Seems that if you've provided the necessary re-coat time recommended by the manufacturer of your top coat product (BM?), I don't see where you would have any issues. However, if you are still concerned, I'd suggest you contact Zinsser (Rustoleum) technical support directly:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGCorporate.asp?sn=cu
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:28 PM   #15
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BM Ultra flat hasn't been a great performer for me in terms of hide. I'm usually going over white with white, but I haven't tested the hide extensively on colors. I suspect it would be pretty lacking based on the white over white performance.

My normal ceiling paint from BM is ben flat and I have them tint the white with my own custom formula that we worked up last year through trial and error. The hide is solid.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #16
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I understand what you are asking. Can you use the oil based primer over the latex you've applied and if so how long should you wait to do so?

As per my previous answer - allowing for what the manufacturer recommends for normal recoating time should be adequate. If you are still concerned, just wait until Monday to commence (as you likely need to do anyway) and you should be more than fine.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:38 PM   #17
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Yeah, like I said, a big mistake, hence always learning. Thank God I am learning from my mistakes and not repeating them. I suspicion the recoat time as listed on the can assumes a second coat of the same finished product. Why recoat with a primer??? Except if you made the mistake I did.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
To edit my stated conditions, I last painted the ceiling this past Thursday with the 3 coats. I am hoping to repaint as soon as this coming Monday.
good

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Primer was intended to be just a sealer, and lacked pigment, so the old yellow still showed through almost as original. After 1 coat of BM ultra flat in white, it was not evident if what I was seeing was bleedthrough or just inability of pigments to cover the old creamy tan yellow color( about 3 samples down on a fan deck). Therefore I did not realize the problem until after the 3rd coat.

So, let me make it clear, I am asking about priming with oil on a freshly painted ceiling. Is your time frame as written still valid?
yes
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up.
This may not make you feel better about your lost time, but at least you recognized what it was at the start.

I once put 2 coats on a 30x15 cieling (that was seperated by 5 wood beams) trying to cover what I thought was just aged paint before I figured out why it kept turning yellow. Appearently the lady who lived there for the last 40 years was a chain smoker. Had never seen anything like before.

Cover Stain

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Old 03-24-2012, 03:47 PM   #20
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Are you a professional painter?
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