New smooth cedar exterior spindles and rails - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-05-2009, 07:22 PM   #1
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default New smooth cedar exterior spindles and rails

I am pricing out a new hand rails and spindles for a cottage deck. We are looking at over 200 spindles plus railing. It will all be new, smooth cedar. Usually, I am repainting already finished spindles and fighting peeling on the top rail. Now, I have the opportunity to start fresh. What do you think is the best system for new spindles?

1. Oil primer (Benjamin Moore 094) and 2 coats of acrylic stain.
2. Oil primer (094) and 2 coats of acrylic paint
3. 3 coats of solid oil stain
4. Solid color decking stain (cabot's)
5. Other

From what I have seen, they all fail eventually. Stain seems the easiest to fix when it does. Paint can last pretty well sometime, but also seems to cause the wood to rot from the inside out from the butt ends of spindles and other wood pieces. Solid decking stain may be a good option, but who has not seen that peel also, shoot that stuff builds as much of a film as any paint. What is your take?
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-05-2009, 07:55 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
vermontpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,091
Thanked 5,929 Times in 3,434 Posts
View vermontpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.



__________________
Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vermontpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:25 PM   #3
tsevnami
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,189
Rewards Points: 1,000
Thanks: 37
Thanked 62 Times in 51 Posts
View tsunamicontract's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.
scott, thats kind of what I was thinking but not sure if Dean wants a painted look (smooth, painted look) which is not exactly what a semi solid oil will give you.
tsunamicontract is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-05-2009, 08:28 PM   #4
The Lurker
 
MAK-Deco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Outer Rim of Chicago
Posts: 3,514
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 99
Thanked 290 Times in 207 Posts
View MAK-Deco's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.
Do you think that will block / stop tannin bleed?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MAK-Deco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:34 PM   #5
The Lurker
 
MAK-Deco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Outer Rim of Chicago
Posts: 3,514
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 99
Thanked 290 Times in 207 Posts
View MAK-Deco's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanV View Post
I am pricing out a new hand rails and spindles for a cottage deck. We are looking at over 200 spindles plus railing. It will all be new, smooth cedar. Usually, I am repainting already finished spindles and fighting peeling on the top rail. Now, I have the opportunity to start fresh. What do you think is the best system for new spindles?

1. Oil primer (Benjamin Moore 094) and 2 coats of acrylic stain.
2. Oil primer (094) and 2 coats of acrylic paint
3. 3 coats of solid oil stain
4. Solid color decking stain (cabot's)
5. Other

From what I have seen, they all fail eventually. Stain seems the easiest to fix when it does. Paint can last pretty well sometime, but also seems to cause the wood to rot from the inside out from the butt ends of spindles and other wood pieces. Solid decking stain may be a good option, but who has not seen that peel also, shoot that stuff builds as much of a film as any paint. What is your take?

If you can still get BM Oil primer 100 it penetrates better than 94. We just did some new siding with BM 100 and solid acrylic on top it looked great. we have gone back to the slow dry oil on cedar sucks waiting for drying but it really penetrates raw cedar.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MAK-Deco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:46 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
vermontpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,091
Thanked 5,929 Times in 3,434 Posts
View vermontpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK-Deco View Post
Do you think that will block / stop tannin bleed?
No, nothing really will. Thats why semi solid is cool, the wood grain still shoes, it lets wood be wood. If the color isnt white or yellow or light blue, it should be fine. Many of the organic colors actually camoflauge tannin bleed pretty well.



__________________
Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vermontpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:49 PM   #7
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I did not think of that approach. I have actually used that on a porch floor before that they wanted solid but instead did two coats of a semi-solid, so it would not peel easily. Worked great and looked almost solid (light green color).

Currently, they are solid, painted white, but it would be worth working up a sample at least to see if it would work for them.
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:54 PM   #8
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK-Deco View Post
If you can still get BM Oil primer 100 it penetrates better than 94. We just did some new siding with BM 100 and solid acrylic on top it looked great. we have gone back to the slow dry oil on cedar sucks waiting for drying but it really penetrates raw cedar.

My dealer is not real big on the 100 primer, since it is so difficult to spread. That is some thick stuff. I always thought 100 was geared for paint and not as good at controlling tannins. At least that is what I heard
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:55 PM   #9
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
No, nothing really will. Thats why semi solid is cool, the wood grain still shoes, it lets wood be wood. If the color isnt white or yellow or light blue, it should be fine. Many of the organic colors actually camoflauge tannin bleed pretty well.
These are going white though.
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:55 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
vermontpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,091
Thanked 5,929 Times in 3,434 Posts
View vermontpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.



__________________
Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vermontpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:25 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DC suburbs
Posts: 511
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 39
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
View ParagonVA's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.
Is this the one they suggest for hard to cover areas before applying the solid hide Pro V.T.? If so, that system works super well. I used it a while back, (not sure if it's been reformulated since), and those pickets were SO white
__________________
shut the F up Donnie
ParagonVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:36 PM   #12
The Lurker
 
MAK-Deco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Outer Rim of Chicago
Posts: 3,514
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 99
Thanked 290 Times in 207 Posts
View MAK-Deco's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.
at least here where Cabot's oil went to a quick dry it hasn't worked as well and we stopped using it.

Dean,

100 penetrates cedar really well and seems to seal tannin as good for quick dry at least for us.

I wouldn't use it on all ready coated stuff as it would take forever and a day to dry and is very shiny on prev. coated surfaces.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MAK-Deco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 08:38 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
NACE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairfield, CT
Posts: 1,125
Rewards Points: 1,138
Thanks: 382
Thanked 1,033 Times in 462 Posts
View NACE's Photo Album My Photos
Default

How long has the cedar been exposed to UV? If there is any graying or exposure more than 30 days the degradation of lignin and cellulose has began, forming an unstable surface. This should be removed. Long oil primers have better penetration but longer dry. 100 contains a mildewcide as well. 094 is great too with shorter dry times, less film build. What is the construction like? Will there be areas that may need a sealant applied to prevent capillary moisture from wicking up from butt joints? Can a coating be applied to prevent bleed at these junctures? What is the moisture content of the wood in random areas? Can sharp edges be smoothed or chamfered to insure better adhesion on sharp edges? Just some thoughts.
NACE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 05:59 PM   #14
Paint to fish

 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 9,372
Rewards Points: 26
Thanks: 956
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,807 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

The railings have not been built yet. The builder will build the sections, then I will finish the sections prior to installation. He will apply some primer or sealer to the butt joints before assembling. Edges can be broken (they will be square spindles).
DeanV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 10:35 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Rapids,MN
Posts: 189
Rewards Points: 166
Thanks: 102
Thanked 27 Times in 20 Posts
View MNpainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Dean. I have had good luck on Cedar with BM solid oil stain topped with BM solid Latex.
steve
MNpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eggshell finish black paint on smooth walls tronman Commercial and Industrial Painting 23 11-14-2008 05:29 PM
smooth fascia boards tsquare Surface Preparation and Application 10 05-03-2008 07:43 AM
Advise on painting stairway spindles... kingcotrader General Painting Discussion 11 04-24-2008 12:01 AM
Aluminum rails iPaint Richmond General Painting Discussion 7 02-25-2008 08:01 PM
Prep/Paint exterior guard rails 5thStreet Surface Preparation and Application 2 02-01-2008 10:30 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com