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Old 05-12-2019, 06:58 PM   #21
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Those thin gauge steel doors are good heat conductors and often experience condensation on the exterior surfaces during early morning hours when painted in the spring depending upon the dew point. This can inhibit the curing of WB finishes applied the previous day, potentially resulting in blistering the next morning, especially on non-porous factory coatings used on metal doors. The dew usually flashes off before anybody might be up and about to even take notice that they were ever wet.

I pretty much have the same doors on my house which were repainted over the factory finish 4 years ago. I scuffed the heck out of them with 3M 07447 Maroon Pads, providing a good scratch profile for paint and/or primer to adhere to. I wiped them down with Wil-bond, used an alkyd primer for clean metal (I used metal primer because I removed some rust on outside edges, exposing metal), followed by a matte alkyd metal specific coating. I pressure wash the house every year, and can give the doors a good aggressive blasting, with none of the finish coming off. The finish is tight and sound.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Alchemy Redux View Post
Those thin gauge steel doors are good heat conductors and often experience condensation on the exterior surfaces during early morning hours when painted in the spring depending upon the dew point. This can inhibit the curing of WB finishes applied the previous day, potentially resulting in blistering the next morning, especially on non-porous factory coatings used on metal doors. The dew usually flashes off before anybody might be up and about to even take notice that they were ever wet.
As far as I understand it, moisture in the air, or relative humidity, will condensate on cold metal surfaces at a particular dew point temperature rather than on a warm metal surface. Then there's expansion and contraction. Which most acrylics should have enough elasticity to handle. But what you're saying is something to consider.

I'm still leaning towards surface contamination, or the properties of a high surface tension Kynar finish that wasn't scuffed enough to create an anchor for a subsequent coating.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:24 AM   #23
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As far as I understand it, moisture in the air, or relative humidity, will condensate on cold metal surfaces at a particular dew point temperature rather than on a warm metal surface. Then there's expansion and contraction. Which most acrylics should have enough elasticity to handle. But what you're saying is something to consider.

I'm still leaning towards surface contamination, or the properties of a high surface tension Kynar finish that wasn't scuffed enough to create an anchor for a subsequent coating.
In hindsight you’re correct and I’m wrong assuming the garage is unconditioned space which would be true for most garages. My garage on the other hand is conditioned resulting in extreme temperature gradients. In the winter I’d get condensation on the interior, and the reverse in the warmer months with the A/C kicking on, resulting in condensation on the exterior, the doors having a thin layer of vinyl faced foam insulation on the interior face which is ineffective for a conditioned garage. I added an additional layer of vinyl faced fiberglass insulation (drop ceiling panels) to remedy but still have perpetual puddling at the panel shiplap joints. A similar dynamic exists with conditioned metal buildings as well.

As you mentioned, the high surface tension combined with insufficient scuffing resulting in poor to no anchoring/adhesion and the possibility of surface contamination is the likely cause.

With regards to surface contamination, I know of homeowners/DIY’ers who have used clear polymer wipe-on restoration products to restore color and sheen to dark colored factory finished metal doors and vinyl shutters that have oxidized/chalked, resulting in bonding issues when refinishing with paint, one even having used Armor-All..
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:38 PM   #24
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I've made some pretty good money off of that SW Pro industrial multi-surface acrylic the last couple of years! Good job SW!
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:59 AM   #25
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If any silicone (spray, probably) ever got on the door the paint will not adhere. Even pressure washing will not remove it; it will just push it around a bit.

If you see any beading of water after the pressure washing it might be that there is silicone still on the door.

A friend who owns an autobody shop had a car come in with a small dent. But there was silicone on the surface of the car. The body filler came off and the paint flaked off. He redid the job washing the car and wiping it down with PreSol, and it still flaked off.

Silicone will defeat you every time. I'm not sayin that is the case here. But maybe.

In 1997 Dodge's Neon plant had a paint line contaminated with silicone. Apparently the stamping oil had some silicone in it. They had to repaint many cars that year and the repaints did not hold up very well either.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:13 AM   #26
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Just slap a coat of Behr Marquee exterior on it. It'll be perfect. Trust me.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:40 PM   #27
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Maybe it was powder-coated from the factory or a Kynar finish like on roofs. Neither one seems to paint well without significant hoops to jump through. We've had success over Kynar with two-part epoxy basecoat and a urethane top-coat. I've successfully dodged coating over powder-coats for 20 years, and I'm trying to keep it that way.

Could be a bit much on a residential garage door, but I wouldn't put it past the manufacturer to use one of the two methods above. Kynar especially.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #28
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Interesting Article from the Door & Access Manufacturer’s Association International

How to Repaint a Steel Garage Door (Spring 2017)

“For Newly Installed Doors
If the door was installed in the last two years, it’s surface may have
a layer of factory-applied wax (used to protect the steel panels during fabrication and transit). Failure to remove this material will result in poor adhesion of the new coating. To remove this wax, lightly scuff the surface with a GRAY (not green) 3M synthetic steel wool pad (equivalent to “000” steel wool) saturated with soapy water. Wipe and rinse with clean water only to remove any loose dust or soap film.
Then, perform the Adhesion Test at right. If poor adhesion is still observed, repeat step #4. It is imperative, of course, not to remove the factory finish during this process. If the test results still indicate poor adhesion, do not proceed. Contact your garage door supplier to discuss options or alternative coatings.”
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:18 AM   #29
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I wouldn't be surprised if they used Teflon in their coating process. I used to dip finished aluminum parts in a Teflon vat once the parts had been anodized.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:50 AM   #30
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Coil coated.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy Redux View Post
Interesting Article from the Door & Access Manufacturer’s Association International

How to Repaint a Steel Garage Door (Spring 2017)

“For Newly Installed Doors
If the door was installed in the last two years, it’s surface may have
a layer of factory-applied wax (used to protect the steel panels during fabrication and transit). Failure to remove this material will result in poor adhesion of the new coating. To remove this wax, lightly scuff the surface with a GRAY (not green) 3M synthetic steel wool pad (equivalent to “000” steel wool) saturated with soapy water. Wipe and rinse with clean water only to remove any loose dust or soap film.
Then, perform the Adhesion Test at right. If poor adhesion is still observed, repeat step #4. It is imperative, of course, not to remove the factory finish during this process. If the test results still indicate poor adhesion, do not proceed. Contact your garage door supplier to discuss options or alternative coatings.”
Interesting. I had heard this before but i thought it was for vinyl doors & siding.

I'd use a car de-waxer with the scotch pad & hot water. To this day I've never used steel wool. I've used the steel wool equivalent pads only.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParamountPaint View Post
Maybe it was powder-coated from the factory or a Kynar finish like on roofs. Neither one seems to paint well without significant hoops to jump through. We've had success over Kynar with two-part epoxy basecoat and a urethane top-coat. I've successfully dodged coating over powder-coats for 20 years, and I'm trying to keep it that way.



Could be a bit much on a residential garage door, but I wouldn't put it past the manufacturer to use one of the two methods above. Kynar especially.
Oh God help me.

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Old 05-16-2019, 07:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy Redux View Post
Interesting Article from the Door & Access Manufacturer’s Association International



How to Repaint a Steel Garage Door (Spring 2017)



“For Newly Installed Doors

If the door was installed in the last two years, it’s surface may have

a layer of factory-applied wax (used to protect the steel panels during fabrication and transit). Failure to remove this material will result in poor adhesion of the new coating. To remove this wax, lightly scuff the surface with a GRAY (not green) 3M synthetic steel wool pad (equivalent to “000” steel wool) saturated with soapy water. Wipe and rinse with clean water only to remove any loose dust or soap film.

Then, perform the Adhesion Test at right. If poor adhesion is still observed, repeat step #4. It is imperative, of course, not to remove the factory finish during this process. If the test results still indicate poor adhesion, do not proceed. Contact your garage door supplier to discuss options or alternative coatings.”
Thank you! What's the adhesion test?

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Old 05-16-2019, 09:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Thank you! What's the adhesion test?

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You’re welcome!

Adhesion test:
https://www.dasma.com/articles/featu...Spring2017.pdf

Clopay, A DASMA member overhead door manufacturer, has a very detailed prep and finishing spec which might be of use:

https://www.clopaydoor.com/docs/defa...painting-1.pdf

The oil modified alkyds that I used aren’t recommended..neither are the maroon pads.

Hope this helps
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:14 PM   #35
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SW Shercryl with acrylic bonding primer is spec'd for Kynar. The system seemed to perform extremely well in terms of bonding. However, the effin Shercryl didn't hold it's sheen or color over the length of time I thought it should. I prefer the PPG Pitt Tech Plus rather than shercryl.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:59 PM   #36
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SW Shercryl with acrylic bonding primer is spec'd for Kynar. The system seemed to perform extremely well in terms of bonding. However, the effin Shercryl didn't hold it's sheen or color over the length of time I thought it should. I prefer the PPG Pitt Tech Plus rather than shercryl.
Shercryl fades pretty quickly. Pitt Tech +...good stuff. Sold tons of it.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:37 PM   #37
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Interesting. I had heard this before but i thought it was for vinyl doors & siding.

I'd use a car de-waxer with the scotch pad & hot water. To this day I've never used steel wool. I've used the steel wool equivalent pads only.
Do you know where steel wool comes from? Steel sheep!
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
SW Shercryl with acrylic bonding primer is spec'd for Kynar. The system seemed to perform extremely well in terms of bonding. However, the effin Shercryl didn't hold it's sheen or color over the length of time I thought it should. I prefer the PPG Pitt Tech Plus rather than shercryl.
I've been using the ppg dtr 2 part epoxy as a base coat. It would be great as a finish but it fades fast.

That's when we started using one of the ppg urethanes on top. Seems to have helped with fading.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:24 AM   #39
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I've been using the ppg dtr 2 part epoxy as a base coat. It would be great as a finish but it fades fast.

That's when we started using one of the ppg urethanes on top. Seems to have helped with fading.
That sounds like the Pitt Guard we often use. Great as a primer, but no UV resistance. AS far as I know, The PPG PSX 700 polysiloxane is the only primer finish two component industrial coating that has UV resistance.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:28 PM   #40
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That sounds like the Pitt Guard we often use. Great as a primer, but no UV resistance. AS far as I know, The PPG PSX 700 polysiloxane is the only primer finish two component industrial coating that has UV resistance.
That PSX 700 is a beast. We did about 6 miles of sound wall posts with it. Straight over unprimed grinded steel with a 4" roller.
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