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Old 09-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #1
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Default Proper mil thickness vs 2 coats question

Just got me a mil thickness gauge today. I am trying to improve, guys so help me understand something.

I use a fair amount of pro mar 200. In the spec sheet it calls for 4 mil thickness.

I can easily exceed that when i spray & backroll.

Should i apply 1 coat @ 4 mil or 2 coats @ 2 mil or 2 coats @ 4 mil?
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #2
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4 mil WFT or DFT?
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:16 AM   #3
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Pro mar 200 on drywall. Nobody cares and it doesn't matter. Just needs to look good.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftweed View Post
Just got me a mil thickness gauge today. I am trying to improve, guys so help me understand something.

I use a fair amount of pro mar 200. In the spec sheet it calls for 4 mil thickness.

I can easily exceed that when i spray & backroll.

Should i apply 1 coat @ 4 mil or 2 coats @ 2 mil or 2 coats @ 4 mil?
I haven't run into a situation where I've needed a specific mil thickness for acrylics, but I know with epoxies to much in one coat can be cause for an ' inspector failure '.

I would probably try and do it in 2, to much paint to fast could cause runs, etc
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:18 AM   #5
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Painters tend to over think things
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:22 AM   #6
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Well, what is the goal of what your doing? If its just to have a good covered paint job then two coats @2mil or one @4 will often accomplish that.
If you want the best looking finish possible while still saving a bit on material try first coat @2, and second coat @4.

For the best looking job that will have a solid material warranty, you need two coats @4.

That's how I look at it anyway. Mil build is about a lot more than just coverage. It affects how well the film flows out and durability. When a paint is rated for so many scrub cycles, etc., that is all dependent on the thickness of the film being what it's supposed to be.

I think you will find paying attention to your thickness can be a big help in understanding why coatings behave the way they do at different times and achieving optimal results.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:23 AM   #7
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Default Proper mil thickness vs 2 coats question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
4 mil WFT or DFT?

Assuming he's talking about WFT as that's what can easily be checked with a gauge.

Last edited by Jmayspaint; 09-14-2014 at 09:46 AM..
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:45 AM   #8
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Coverage: 350 - 400 sq ft/gal
@ 4 mils wet; 1.6 mils dry
per coat
I'm no scientist but if that is what they recommend then that is probably what you should do
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:53 AM   #9
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Something you should consider also is your transfer efficiency. In airless its between 65-70%.

So when you spray 15 gals only 10 are actually going on. Lets say your using a .017" tip putting on about a 1/5th of a gal for a minute of spray time, also known as flow rate.

So now your going to cover 75-80 ft with 1 minute of trigger time. When you break out your trusty wet film thickness gauge you'll see its going to be around 4 mils wet. Spread Rate

BTW the spec is 2 coats 4 mils wet .017"-021". Just be glad its not 2 part PPG thats $1250.00 a 5er
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:23 AM   #10
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Robladd makes a good point. Footage numbers given assume %100 transfer efficiency which never happens with spray or roll.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
Robladd makes a good point. Footage numbers given assume %100 transfer efficiency which never happens with spray or roll.
That's not true at all? Transfer efficiency does not correlate to lost paint. When I spray an exterior of a house with 20 gallons through the pump, 7 gallons does not just disappear as loss or overspray. Just an example.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:51 AM   #12
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So MC how many gallons are you putting? I know that spray painter performance varies. But every sprayer has 3 factors of waste. Overspray, Bounce Back and Fogging.

Even if your on top of your game your still not going to get 100% TE from an airless. I believe I have gotten 90% in AAA.

Last edited by robladd; 09-14-2014 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCalifornia View Post
That's not true at all? Transfer efficiency does not correlate to lost paint. When I spray an exterior of a house with 20 gallons through the pump, 7 gallons does not just disappear as loss or overspray. Just an example.

I don't just mean loss from spraying, and I haven't personally verified the exact numbers he's talking about. When you cut and roll a certain amount of paint is lost. On the side of the roller bucket, soaked up into the nap, washed down the sink when you wash a brush.

The numbers given by the manufactured take none of this into account, or overspray for that matter. Most of them (manufactures) tell you this in the fine print.

What I have noticed is if I am getting perfect footage, say 400 per gallon, it means I'm not actually getting 4mil on.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:06 AM   #14
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If you're spraying something like this, there will be a decrease in transfer efficiency. For sure.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftweed View Post

Should i apply 1 coat @ 4 mil or 2 coats @ 2 mil or 2 coats @ 4 mil?
The TDS does not state at what WFT to apply this coating, only that at 4 mil WFT you will get 1.7 mils DFT (white base, eggshell, 42% SBV +/- 2%). If application thickness was important (like it is with industrial coatings) they would explicitly state what WFT to apply the coating in the "application" section of the TDS (alternatively, they may just tell you the required/recommended DFT).

In most instances, you would still apply two coats to reach the recommended DFT. For other coatings, the TDS will explicity tell you to apply a single coat.

All the info you need will always be on the TDS.
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:48 PM   #16
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Rcon for president.

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Old 09-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #17
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Like I said before......Over thinkin it!
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:40 PM   #18
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Rcon for president.

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That's what I'm talkin about.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:55 PM   #19
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o.k. o.k. Let me elaborate further:

Here is my thinking: When I go train new employees, I believe using the mil thickness gauge would be a great tool in showing them that they are either putting it on either too thick or too thin. Now, we have all seen those guys that bleed a roller way to far. And no matter how many times you tell them that's not okay, they still do it. Or they guys that slap it on so dang thick its ridiculous.

I would like to use this tool to teach proper application methods. Have the trainee paint a room, check it with the gauge and take corrective action.

Now I know, as an apartment painter this is irrelevant as all we have to do is just get it on the walls and its fine. But if I can teach good practices, and get good results, I can further my already good name in my particular industry.

I just picked up my second apartment complex, and will have to hire to keep up as now I will be responsible for a total of 350 units. 1 guy can only do so much! But I got the new customer because of a referral from the complex I currently paint. These complexes are getting tired of crappy work and have come to realize they are just going to have to pay for decent work.
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Old 09-14-2014, 04:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftweed
o.k. o.k. Let me elaborate further: Here is my thinking: When I go train new employees, I believe using the mil thickness gauge would be a great tool in showing them that they are either putting it on either too thick or too thin. Now, we have all seen those guys that bleed a roller way to far. And no matter how many times you tell them that's not okay, they still do it. Or they guys that slap it on so dang thick its ridiculous. I would like to use this tool to teach proper application methods. Have the trainee paint a room, check it with the gauge and take corrective action. Now I know, as an apartment painter this is irrelevant as all we have to do is just get it on the walls and its fine. But if I can teach good practices, and get good results, I can further my already good name in my particular industry. I just picked up my second apartment complex, and will have to hire to keep up as now I will be responsible for a total of 350 units. 1 guy can only do so much! But I got the new customer because of a referral from the complex I currently paint. These complexes are getting tired of crappy work and have come to realize they are just going to have to pay for decent work.
IMO now I are way overthinking. Ur gonna confuse the issue with someone just getting into the trade. Monkey see. Monkey do. In this thing. It's not too hard to get a guy on the right tract if u make him ur partner for a bit and show him the ropes. Ur not using a mil gauge. How could introducing him to one be helpful.

The way u seem to be knocking out units and the volume u do of that one thing somebody if they have the desire will pick up on what they need to be doing. Working alongside of you. Pretty quick. I'd think.
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