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Old 09-12-2008, 04:03 PM   #1
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Default Siding that never got back primed

I went to look at the side of a house today which was painted last October is failing miserably, its coming off in sheets. I saw some drips coming from the butts of the boards that looked like they were watered down tannin and decided to pop one off and take a look. Sure enough, the siding was never back primed before it was hung. I feel like even if I strip what I can get off the fronts and do an oil prime there will still be problems. Any ideas as to how I can actually do the job and stand behind it?
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:21 PM   #2
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The only way you can guarantee the restoration work is if you get it stripped completely and start again. I've been in similar sittuations where they want it put right but the cost is prohibitive. All I say is that I can get off as much as is reasonably possible and treat the exposed areas as they should have been originally.

Be honest with them and tell them that they will have problems with the areas that you cannot get stripped in the future. Maybe even the parts that you've prep'd and redone as it should be because of the surrounding areas.

I've never come across a h/o yet who was willing to have something like that completely stripped and repainted up to spec. I think if they can see you're sincere and honest in the advice you're giving then they understand the predicament that they are in.

Tell them you'll do your very best but won't be able to guarantee the work. Let them know that you'll give it the best chance of some sort of lifespan that you can given the limitations (time, cost etc).
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:44 PM   #3
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That's basically the conversation that I had with the HO today and she is amazingly understanding. I told her that there are things I can do that I think might do the trick, but I have never been in a situation like this before, and really would hate to let her down. As far as I understand it though, if the backs of those boards stay exposed, then essentially the flood gates to the paint are open, and I have seen the effects of this first hand this afternoon. Even if I take everything down to bare wood, I still don't beleive the coatings would be successful unless I actually pull the boards off and prime the backs. The bottom line is that she wants to put an end to this problem if it means taking the siding off and priming it, or replacing it, so be it. I just need to be very sure that there is no X factor involved and that whatever I do is a sure thing, not a hopeful experiment.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:02 PM   #4
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Well if she's prepared to go all the way then do just that. Take a board off and see how long it's going to take to strip down completely. If it's going to cost more to strip than it is to buy new timber then replace it.

Remember, whichever route you go down, the paint job is going to cost the same. The extra $ is going to be in removing the timber and stripping or removing the timber and replacing with new. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like the paint will take a lot to come off - Maybe a pressure washer for the tough bits?

I always feel bad for the people when they've been given a shoddy job. I'd hate to find myself in that position. All for the sake of the price of a can of paint and a couple of hours labor...
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:05 PM   #5
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It can be really tough on homes that are not back primed. I worked on one that we scraped failing areas, spot primed with slow dry oil, and then topcoated and enough moisture was coming through the siding that it push everything off. A year or two later we had a carpenter pull off the siding in the worst areas. Areas that the sun hit directly has moisture condensing behind the siding on the foil backing of the foam sheathing (if that makes descriptive sense) and the cedar siding was resting right on the foil so the water just wicked right through. The builder put a mesh spaced behind the areas so the water could run out and backprimed the siding before it was reinstalled.

Another job I am dealing with is another white home with major tannin bleed issues and fascia peeling. Again, nothing was back primed.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:30 PM   #6
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It really is a shame that a lot of contractors don't have the foresight to consider the fact that what they do does effect these homes. At the company I used to work for one of the other foreman (the big money maker) would do the most horrible things to houses and the boss never had any problems with it because he had a high turnover rate. Now mind you this is an established, decade old company that is still continuing to grow, and that foreman is still there to this day not putting primer on, doing one coat when the HO paid for two, shotty scrape jobs, latex when they paid for oil, etc. It just disgusts me because not only are people paying for things that they aren't receiving, but they are being forced to have the job re-done (hopefully by someone who cares) sooner than they should have to. Not only that, but it gives us all a bad name. Now I need a cigarette
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:01 PM   #7
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I think this system would work without failure.
Wedge Vents, peel bond, and top coat. Make sure there are no funny rooflines or anything else funneling water back into the siding. Not sure how time consuming installing wedge vents would be but I would think that system would end up working fine. Just let it dry out for a while after you scrape it.
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamicontract View Post
I think this system would work without failure.
Wedge Vents, peel bond, and top coat. Make sure there are no funny rooflines or anything else funneling water back into the siding. Not sure how time consuming installing wedge vents would be but I would think that system would end up working fine. Just let it dry out for a while after you scrape it.
That system looks cool! I can see the principles behind it. Have you seen any successful results from it?
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:25 PM   #9
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I agree with Dean. If it is not backprimed, I would be hesitant to oil prime the whole thing. I would use the best acrylic breathable primer possible to allow moisture coming from the backside to escape without pushing the coatings off.



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Old 09-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #10
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Read the data sheet for XIM Peel Bond. It's pretty good at sealing everything and leveling out the uneven layers. It is also flexible and breatheable.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:44 PM   #11
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Thanks for everything fellas. It looks like were gona go with the peel bond and wedge vents. I am still a little bit weary of the long term results, but the HO is aware that there is still a risk involved, and we came to the conclusion that it would be a worth while venture.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:51 PM   #12
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PVP, please take pictures of your wedgevent instal and give us a report!
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVPainter View Post
Thanks for everything fellas. It looks like were gona go with the peel bond and wedge vents. I am still a little bit weary of the long term results, but the HO is aware that there is still a risk involved, and we came to the conclusion that it would be a worth while venture.
PV

Its nice to see a paint company explore the options in a tough situation instead of just throwing more paint on without thinking about it. That was a tough situation and you handled it well.



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Old 09-17-2008, 07:18 PM   #14
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wedge vent...XIM peel bond ... top coat with Cabots PROVT stain Now you can sleep at night with this system.
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:35 PM   #15
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We see a lot of this out here
Clapboard shims and latex
No oil...that would be bad...it would (most likely) peel like a banana
Usually a solid stain is the best choice...especially if it is a "wet" house (exuding moisture from the inside peeling off the paint)
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
We see a lot of this out here
Clapboard shims and latex
No oil...that would be bad...it would (most likely) peel like a banana
Usually a solid stain is the best choice...especially if it is a "wet" house (exuding moisture from the inside peeling off the paint)
Slick, I would think the peel bond would dictate the breathability of the system. Lets say it has a breathability of 15. Solid Stain has a breathability of lets say 30. Will putting a more breathable coating on over it have any benefit besides not lasting as long as paint (probably not a benefit to the HO . . .)
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamicontract View Post
... Lets say [peel bond] has a breathability of 15. Solid Stain has a breathability of lets say 30. Will putting a more breathable coating on over it have any benefit...
I can't say for Peel Bond as I am not familiar with it

I can say that with the numbers you mentioned, and addressing the specific problem (moisture inside), there's no specific advantage to putting a less "breathable" coating on top of a more breathable one that I can see
Though the science behind it is not really my gig
I'm pretty sure there was a thread picking these specific nits around here a while ago, maybe try a search

Sometimes the compromise may lean more towards one side for a specific reason

That the solid stain won't last as long as a paint is an arguable position
I personally and professionally disagree with it, but my experience on the shorelines of New England may be specific to the environment I live and work in
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
I can't say for Peel Bond as I am not familiar with it

I can say that with the numbers you mentioned, and addressing the specific problem (moisture inside), there's no specific advantage to putting a less "breathable" coating on top of a more breathable one that I can see
Though the science behind it is not really my gig
I'm pretty sure there was a thread picking these specific nits around here a while ago, maybe try a search

Sometimes the compromise may lean more towards one side for a specific reason

That the solid stain won't last as long as a paint is an arguable position
I personally and professionally disagree with it, but my experience on the shorelines of New England may be specific to the environment I live and work in
And my specific environment here in the midwest is completely different. And not to have this turn into another paint vs stain thread. And there are other things like smooth or rough siding. But I was trying to specifically address the breathable product over a not as breathable one.
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamicontract View Post
...I was trying to specifically address the breathable product over a not as breathable one.
IIRC, the discussion here came down to one of the more technical dudes saying moisture can only wick at XX rate anyway, so there is a point of no return at which the rate of specific products doesn't matter much

But yes, it certainly could be an issue so to speak

You'd need those numbers to make an accurate determination
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:33 PM   #20
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I might be using peelbond on a cedar fence. Its about 50% raw or a least it will be when I'm done pressure washing it.Top coating with flat acrylic paint. We are not doing the homeowner side so it should be an interesting test.
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