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Old 06-27-2017, 02:58 PM   #1
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Default So I Gardz'd the new texture....

I talked about this a little on another thread. I heard great things about using gardz to prime new texture, so I tried it out on this house. On the plus side, I love the way it makes the texture bulletproof, and the wall waterproof.

However, I have some problems now. I sprayed it on with a 619 without backrolling. I thought I was doing it pretty good, but when it dried, there were shiny streaks. (The directions say the sheen should be uniform when dry. I didnt read that.) I didnt think it would matter, but those streaks are flashing through multiple topcoats of flat paint, sprayed and backrolled, then rolled out again. So I rolled another coat of gardz on the lids, and all the walls I hadnt first coated, and then on the walls I had first coated. Even on the unpainted walls, the sheen is still streaky even after the 2nd rolled gardz coat. They're definitely coming out better after the 2nd gardz, but its giving all the paint a bit of a sheen, and I have a feeling its not gonna touch up for chit. Im using PPG Pure Performance Flat on the walls, and PPG Flat Mopako on the lids, BTW.

I have to do the garage at a later time. Im gonna try the gardz one more time. Im gonna backroll one wall, and on another wall, Im gonna use a smaller tip, like a 513 and spray a lighter coat, to see if I can get it any more uniform. I cant tell if the streaks are from not putting it on heavy enough, or if its too heavy on the shiny parts.... It really penetrates, so its hard to say.

Any thoughts, advice, "good luck with that," etc?
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:19 PM   #2
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I've never been a huge fan of Gardz, those who love it say ,oh ya you've got to put on 2 or 3 coats then it's really great. I like to prime once and get on with my life!
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:32 PM   #3
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I have noticed the clear primers are really thin and build up quick. We always use the rx35. Whenever we are repriming mud work it's always the entire wall for the reason your describing. Too much in one spot and it's gonna flash. What about a higher sheen paint? With that much guardz I'm sure your topcoat will go on like glass and dry out fine


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Old 06-27-2017, 07:51 PM   #4
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Good luck with that... got pics?

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Old 06-27-2017, 09:11 PM   #5
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My experience with Gardz is that it works well to seal a porous surface, but if it is not spread thin, or if it is on a previously sealed surface, it dries so slowly that it will sag and leave streaks. That is why I have never understood the second coat. The only time a second coat seemed necessary for me was on old plaster that really drank up the initial coat.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:38 PM   #6
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Default Thoughts on Gardz

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Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
I talked about this a little on another thread. I heard great things about using gardz to prime new texture, so I tried it out on this house. On the plus side, I love the way it makes the texture bulletproof, and the wall waterproof.

However, I have some problems now. I sprayed it on with a 619 without backrolling. I thought I was doing it pretty good, but when it dried, there were shiny streaks. (The directions say the sheen should be uniform when dry. I didnt read that.) I didnt think it would matter, but those streaks are flashing through multiple topcoats of flat paint, sprayed and backrolled, then rolled out again. So I rolled another coat of gardz on the lids, and all the walls I hadnt first coated, and then on the walls I had first coated. Even on the unpainted walls, the sheen is still streaky even after the 2nd rolled gardz coat. They're definitely coming out better after the 2nd gardz, but its giving all the paint a bit of a sheen, and I have a feeling its not gonna touch up for chit. Im using PPG Pure Performance Flat on the walls, and PPG Flat Mopako on the lids, BTW.

I have to do the garage at a later time. Im gonna try the gardz one more time. Im gonna backroll one wall, and on another wall, Im gonna use a smaller tip, like a 513 and spray a lighter coat, to see if I can get it any more uniform. I cant tell if the streaks are from not putting it on heavy enough, or if its too heavy on the shiny parts.... It really penetrates, so its hard to say.

Any thoughts, advice, "good luck with that," etc?
As I have said before, I have never sprayed Gardz, so I cannot speak as to how that should be done.

I have brushed and rolled it many times, though. I just got finished with a 7 x 6 bathroom with 10 foot walls in an auto body shop. The walls in this bathroom had lots of water damage from a roof leak and possibly from flooding from a nearby creek. It has been UGLY for years. A friend who knows the owner and who does work there from time to time asked me to come in and fix the bathroom, so I did. This is because the owner could not find anyone willing to do work that he might not want to have paid for anyway.

There was peeling paint and plaster on all walls. The wall (which was perpendicular to the outside wall) that had the toilet and vanity was so bad that I took off all the smooth plaster as well as so much sandy material behind the toilet area down to the brick wall behind it that I thought I was scooping out wet sand at the beach!

Here is the blow by blow from my invoice:

6/18/17 5 pm 1 am 6 hours

Scraped lots of damaged wall material off bathroom walls; took all material off of narrow wall next to toilet; filled in corner of narrow wall with Durabond and let harden; attached concrete board to narrow wall next to toilet, drilled out holes on metal corner bead, then filled in gaps on either side of concrete board with Durabond, let dry then applied a thin coat of Durabond to smooth edge next to metal corner bead.

6/19/17 4 pm 6 pm 2 hours

More scraping; applied heavy coat of Gardz sealer to east wall to solidify surface.

6/20/17 1:15 pm 7 pm 5 hours

Sanded and scraped east wall to get sandy grit off, then applied another coat of Gardz sealer to soak in and solidify wall; finished scraping rest of walls

6/21/17 1:15 pm 7 pm 5 hours

Finished coating back wall with Durabond; patched a few other areas with Durabond; taped corner by toilet as well as skim coated outside corner next to toilet.

6/22/17 12:15 pm 6 pm 5 hours

Skim coated narrow wall next to toilet to fill in recess; skim coated areas by floor that were damaged; soaked a sponge in Durabond, then stuck it into hole in ceiling above toilet; skim coated 2 sq ft area repaired with green drywall twice to fill in; skim coated back wall with Easy Sand to fill in gaps.

6/23/17 12:15 pm 6 pm 5 hours

Finished all skim coating.

6/24/17 1 pm 9 pm 6 hours

Scraped spackle and paint off of windows, then taped edges of windows; scraped tops of baseboards, then sanded all walls; applied 3 coats of Gardz sealer on most skimcoated areas and 4 coats on whole back wall; cut in walls with semi-gloss paint; brushed out frame around window; rolled 2 coats of Behr Premium Plus Ultra Semi-Gloss; cleaned up and left.

************************************************** ********************************************

There are a lot of little details I have left out. I was thinking of walking off the job 2 hours into it, but out of respect for my good friend who asked me to come in and do this, I pressed on.

As I was applying Gardz over the skim coats, I was reminded of posts here where I have told others that they did not Gardz enough. When I was Gardzing the wall that I had all but scraped clean, skim coated and applied 2 coats of Gardz to and still saw flashing, I thought to myself, what will I tell my brothers and sisters here at Paint Talk if I go ahead and paint semi-gloss directly over a surface that I visually thought was not Gardzed enough and it flashes on me. Never may this happen! I went out and got some more Gardz, applied 2 more coats and put the fan on to dry, then went out to buy the paint.

I came back and went to work cutting in the semi-gloss, tan over pea green and Easy Sand white. Using an Arroworthy Rembrandt 2" sash brush, the paint flowed over the Gardz like a hot knife through butter! As I was cutting in I was thinking about all of those here at Paint Talk and what their experiences were in brushing various brands and grades of paints and thinking "I wonder how the paint I am brushing over the immense amount of Gardz I have applied to these walls would compare to any other situation that those here might experience."

I really liked how the BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA INTERIOR SEMI-GLOSS brushed out over the Gardz. Now it was time to roll out the walls. I chose my current go-to roller sleave, the Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush that appears to be woven compared to most other microfiber roller sleaves. The paint went on like warm butter. I almost one-coated the walls,but to be sure, I put the fan on and took a break, then rolled a second coat on. 225 sq ft x 2 coats of Behr Premium Plus Ultra Interior Semi-Gloss (these numbers are directed to a member who commented on Behr coverage in another post), 450 sq ft in all. No drips and a nice even coat and even sheen. I used 3/5 of a gallon of paint.

I was happy with the job. The owner was happy with the job and cut me a check today without any falderal or complaints. We even talked about doing the other bathroom!

I mentioned that i used Behr. I think I could have used almost any other paint over the surfaces I had Gardzed and they would have come out great.

Day in and day out painting? Is there really such a thing? You want to experiment?

All that being said, my experience with new drywall is that one coat of Gardz fully applied, followed by a second coat, should give you a really good surface to apply 2 coats of finish paint to. If you see dull spots where Gardz has been applied, this is where you can expect flashing to occur. Apply Gardz to those areas and you should be good to go for a uniform finish.

I think I left something out, but i don't remember right now what it is.

futtyos
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:40 PM   #7
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Default Life Gardz

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I've never been a huge fan of Gardz, those who love it say ,oh ya you've got to put on 2 or 3 coats then it's really great. I like to prime once and get on with my life!
Tell us more about your life.

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Old 06-27-2017, 10:20 PM   #8
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Whenever I reapplied it, it just made the whole thing shinier. It didnt even it out, like I hoped. It made it better, though. But yeah, I'm not into having to do several coats of it just to make the topcoat brush and roll nice... Thats wasting time and material. Like I said, if my tests in the garage go smooth, I'll consider trying it again. It turned out to be very cost effective, with the serious deal my paint rep gave me on it. But, as far as putting paint on top of it, I'm not seeing the huge benefit of Gardz.

Actually, When I sprayed and backrolled the lids, I had to do a second coat, because the paint didnt soak into the texture. Rolling over a slightly porous surface makes the paint cover better. When I figured that out and stopped backrolling, it was fine, except the flashing. It seems like the paint has a sheen to it now, and makes the big lids look kinda crappy. Maybe if I didnt have to use flat paint on the walls, it would work better. That wouldnt help the ceilings though....
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Old 06-28-2017, 02:03 AM   #9
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Tell us more about your life.

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What would you like to know?
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
As I have said before, I have never sprayed Gardz, so I cannot speak as to how that should be done.

I have brushed and rolled it many times, though. I just got finished with a 7 x 6 bathroom with 10 foot walls in an auto body shop. The walls in this bathroom had lots of water damage from a roof leak and possibly from flooding from a nearby creek. It has been UGLY for years. A friend who knows the owner and who does work there from time to time asked me to come in and fix the bathroom, so I did. This is because the owner could not find anyone willing to do work that he might not want to have paid for anyway.

There was peeling paint and plaster on all walls. The wall (which was perpendicular to the outside wall) that had the toilet and vanity was so bad that I took off all the smooth plaster as well as so much sandy material behind the toilet area down to the brick wall behind it that I thought I was scooping out wet sand at the beach!

Here is the blow by blow from my invoice:

6/18/17 5 pm 1 am 6 hours

Scraped lots of damaged wall material off bathroom walls; took all material off of narrow wall next to toilet; filled in corner of narrow wall with Durabond and let harden; attached concrete board to narrow wall next to toilet, drilled out holes on metal corner bead, then filled in gaps on either side of concrete board with Durabond, let dry then applied a thin coat of Durabond to smooth edge next to metal corner bead.

6/19/17 4 pm 6 pm 2 hours

More scraping; applied heavy coat of Gardz sealer to east wall to solidify surface.

6/20/17 1:15 pm 7 pm 5 hours

Sanded and scraped east wall to get sandy grit off, then applied another coat of Gardz sealer to soak in and solidify wall; finished scraping rest of walls

6/21/17 1:15 pm 7 pm 5 hours

Finished coating back wall with Durabond; patched a few other areas with Durabond; taped corner by toilet as well as skim coated outside corner next to toilet.

6/22/17 12:15 pm 6 pm 5 hours

Skim coated narrow wall next to toilet to fill in recess; skim coated areas by floor that were damaged; soaked a sponge in Durabond, then stuck it into hole in ceiling above toilet; skim coated 2 sq ft area repaired with green drywall twice to fill in; skim coated back wall with Easy Sand to fill in gaps.

6/23/17 12:15 pm 6 pm 5 hours

Finished all skim coating.

6/24/17 1 pm 9 pm 6 hours

Scraped spackle and paint off of windows, then taped edges of windows; scraped tops of baseboards, then sanded all walls; applied 3 coats of Gardz sealer on most skimcoated areas and 4 coats on whole back wall; cut in walls with semi-gloss paint; brushed out frame around window; rolled 2 coats of Behr Premium Plus Ultra Semi-Gloss; cleaned up and left.

************************************************** ********************************************

There are a lot of little details I have left out. I was thinking of walking off the job 2 hours into it, but out of respect for my good friend who asked me to come in and do this, I pressed on.

As I was applying Gardz over the skim coats, I was reminded of posts here where I have told others that they did not Gardz enough. When I was Gardzing the wall that I had all but scraped clean, skim coated and applied 2 coats of Gardz to and still saw flashing, I thought to myself, what will I tell my brothers and sisters here at Paint Talk if I go ahead and paint semi-gloss directly over a surface that I visually thought was not Gardzed enough and it flashes on me. Never may this happen! I went out and got some more Gardz, applied 2 more coats and put the fan on to dry, then went out to buy the paint.

I came back and went to work cutting in the semi-gloss, tan over pea green and Easy Sand white. Using an Arroworthy Rembrandt 2" sash brush, the paint flowed over the Gardz like a hot knife through butter! As I was cutting in I was thinking about all of those here at Paint Talk and what their experiences were in brushing various brands and grades of paints and thinking "I wonder how the paint I am brushing over the immense amount of Gardz I have applied to these walls would compare to any other situation that those here might experience."

I really liked how the BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA INTERIOR SEMI-GLOSS brushed out over the Gardz. Now it was time to roll out the walls. I chose my current go-to roller sleave, the Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush that appears to be woven compared to most other microfiber roller sleaves. The paint went on like warm butter. I almost one-coated the walls,but to be sure, I put the fan on and took a break, then rolled a second coat on. 225 sq ft x 2 coats of Behr Premium Plus Ultra Interior Semi-Gloss (these numbers are directed to a member who commented on Behr coverage in another post), 450 sq ft in all. No drips and a nice even coat and even sheen. I used 3/5 of a gallon of paint.

I was happy with the job. The owner was happy with the job and cut me a check today without any falderal or complaints. We even talked about doing the other bathroom!

I mentioned that i used Behr. I think I could have used almost any other paint over the surfaces I had Gardzed and they would have come out great.

Day in and day out painting? Is there really such a thing? You want to experiment?

All that being said, my experience with new drywall is that one coat of Gardz fully applied, followed by a second coat, should give you a really good surface to apply 2 coats of finish paint to. If you see dull spots where Gardz has been applied, this is where you can expect flashing to occur. Apply Gardz to those areas and you should be good to go for a uniform finish.

I think I left something out, but i don't remember right now what it is.

futtyos
WOW!!, Do you write up all your invoices like that?? I would be spending half my life at my keyboard at that rate
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:05 AM   #11
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What would you like to know?

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Old 06-28-2017, 07:57 AM   #12
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WOW!!, Do you write up all your invoices like that?? I would be spending half my life at my keyboard at that rate
I do time and materials for the GC I paint hi rise condos for. At the beginning of each job I start an invoice, then every day when I come home (or the next morning) I put down what I did, how many hours I worked and what materials I bought that day. It is the only way I can remember what I did. If I go a day or 2 without writing it down I somethimes forget and just have to put down the hours. The GC wants to know what I did, so I am used to doing it this way now.

Actually, this makes invoicing a lot easier as I don't have to create the whole thing from scratch when the job is finished, just add up all the numbers. And it is especially invaluable when doing time and materials jobs!

Anyone here who has sat down at the end of a big job and tried to create and organize an invoice from scratch knows what a headache it can be. Unless, of course, you are like W.C. Fields in Man on the Flying Trapeze aka THe Memory Expert.

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:05 AM   #13
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Whenever I reapplied it, it just made the whole thing shinier. It didnt even it out, like I hoped. It made it better, though. But yeah, I'm not into having to do several coats of it just to make the topcoat brush and roll nice... Thats wasting time and material. Like I said, if my tests in the garage go smooth, I'll consider trying it again. It turned out to be very cost effective, with the serious deal my paint rep gave me on it. But, as far as putting paint on top of it, I'm not seeing the huge benefit of Gardz.

Actually, When I sprayed and backrolled the lids, I had to do a second coat, because the paint didnt soak into the texture. Rolling over a slightly porous surface makes the paint cover better. When I figured that out and stopped backrolling, it was fine, except the flashing. It seems like the paint has a sheen to it now, and makes the big lids look kinda crappy. Maybe if I didnt have to use flat paint on the walls, it would work better. That wouldnt help the ceilings though....
Woodco, as I have mentioned earlier, I have never sprayed Gardz, only brushed and rolled. I have not found any better method for getting an even sheen, including with flat paint. At the round hi rise condos I paint at, the outside wall is all windows, from floor to ceiling. Some of the walls get unbelievable amounts of light at certain times of the day. If I don't Gardz those walls, flat paint will flash. With Gardz, all is well.

It may be true that Gardz makes the topcoat of paint somewhat shinier. The semi-gloss job I just did shines like the dickens, but the bathroom is in an autobody/mechanics shop, so the walls need to be easily cleaned.

Just for the heck of it, roll out one small room with 2 coats of Gardz, then roll the paint on and see what it is like. I guarantee you will feel like you died and went to painter's heaven! You will wish all jobs would go so smoothly!

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:57 AM   #14
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I wish I would have known it makes the topcoat shinier. I want my flat to be FLAT, especially on the lids. They look matte now, and I've found that matte paints dont touch up for chit, and Im afraid I screwed myself on the touch-up for this one.

Worse case scenario, is there a way to 'undo' the gardz effect with a primer? 123 or something? luckily, I have some time to figure this out...
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:59 AM   #15
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I wish I would have known it makes the topcoat shinier. I want my flat to be FLAT, especially on the lids. They look matte now, and I've found that matte paints dont touch up for chit, and Im afraid I screwed myself on the touch-up for this one.

Worse case scenario, is there a way to 'undo' the gardz effect with a primer? 123 or something? luckily, I have some time to figure this out...


Yeah, you could put a cheap porous drywall primer on it. Gardz seals the surface so well that it provides maximum sheen hold out for top coats. Generally, that actually makes touch up easier because you don't have differences in absorption/sheen.


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Old 06-28-2017, 01:00 PM   #16
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I wish I would have known it makes the topcoat shinier. I want my flat to be FLAT, especially on the lids. They look matte now, and I've found that matte paints dont touch up for chit, and Im afraid I screwed myself on the touch-up for this one.

Worse case scenario, is there a way to 'undo' the gardz effect with a primer? 123 or something? luckily, I have some time to figure this out...
Have you applied 2 coats of ceiling paint to any of the ceilings yet to see what that finish will look like? Perhaps the 2nd coat will dull the finish up since it is going over a flat 1st coat. If this is the case, then your problem is solved. I would check this out first before you go priming it with a white primer. I would roll out the walls with 2 coats as well to see how they look before you try anything else.

One of the great benefits to using Gardz (as directed) is that it seals the surface, preventing the water in the paint from being sucked up into the ceiling or wall. This allows for slow evaporation of the water out into the room, giving you ample time to work the paint, remove roller lines before they get set (by the water being sucked up before you can roll them out) and keep a wet edge.

If you are spraying everything and not backrolling, then this might not be a factor in your work.

I have used a number of ceiling paints over Gardz. While I do not like the experience of rolling the paint itself, BM 508 Waterborne Ceiling Paint seems to gives the best, lowest shining finish.

What ceiling and wall paints are you using? What sheens on the walls?

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Old 06-28-2017, 03:46 PM   #17
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Tell us more about your life.

futtyos
Well when I little my momma used to call me Sonny, because I was so bright.
I enjoy good eating, and love to cook. I've been known to tip a few CC Manhattan's in the evening. I'm a huge Hockey and Football fan, love to listen to Classic Rock!
I like to prime once and get it on, bang a gong.It's not that I'm lazy, it's just that i'm very good at doing nothing.
Well that's all for now, if I think of anything else you'll be the first to know.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:29 PM   #18
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I do time and materials for the GC I paint hi rise condos for. At the beginning of each job I start an invoice, then every day when I come home (or the next morning) I put down what I did, how many hours I worked and what materials I bought that day. It is the only way I can remember what I did. If I go a day or 2 without writing it down I somethimes forget and just have to put down the hours. The GC wants to know what I did, so I am used to doing it this way now.

Actually, this makes invoicing a lot easier as I don't have to create the whole thing from scratch when the job is finished, just add up all the numbers. And it is especially invaluable when doing time and materials jobs!

Anyone here who has sat down at the end of a big job and tried to create and organize an invoice from scratch knows what a headache it can be. Unless, of course, you are like W.C. Fields in Man on the Flying Trapeze aka THe Memory Expert.

futtyos
Or you could just get one of these!
https://www.amazon.com/EVISTR-Digita...ecorders+small
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #19
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Or you could just get one of these!
https://www.amazon.com/EVISTR-Digita...ecorders+small
That's actually a great idea. I just wonder how long it would last on the job or whether I would rmember to use it. A friend of mine who does handyman work used a small pocket recorder years ago. I'll have to think on this one.

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Old 06-28-2017, 07:45 PM   #20
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Have you applied 2 coats of ceiling paint to any of the ceilings yet to see what that finish will look like? Perhaps the 2nd coat will dull the finish up since it is going over a flat 1st coat. If this is the case, then your problem is solved. I would check this out first before you go priming it with a white primer. I would roll out the walls with 2 coats as well to see how they look before you try anything else.

One of the great benefits to using Gardz (as directed) is that it seals the surface, preventing the water in the paint from being sucked up into the ceiling or wall. This allows for slow evaporation of the water out into the room, giving you ample time to work the paint, remove roller lines before they get set (by the water being sucked up before you can roll them out) and keep a wet edge.

If you are spraying everything and not backrolling, then this might not be a factor in your work.

I have used a number of ceiling paints over Gardz. While I do not like the experience of rolling the paint itself, BM 508 Waterborne Ceiling Paint seems to gives the best, lowest shining finish.

What ceiling and wall paints are you using? What sheens on the walls?

futtyos
Yes, I sprayed and backrolled one coat, then sprayed another on top. I saw the streaks. Rolled another coat of paint the other direction. Didnt help. ReGardzed, and and after about 4 more coats of paint, it looks acceptable. Granted, I only had to do this on the big light ceilings. By this time we had a good portion of the main walls 1st coated, and they were streaky too. SO, Then took my 18" and rerolled every main wall in the house, whether over the gardz, or over the 1st coat of paint. On the plus side, the gardz goes a LONG way. I only used three or four gallons to reroll everything.

So, today, I started 1st coating the rooms with different colors. This was painting over two coats of gardz. Heres what I noticed: Yes, it holds a wet edge longer. IDK if thats a good thing. It took longer to dry. The other thing I noticed, is since it has the water barrier, the paint doesnt 'hide' quite as well.I have three very bright ultradeep base colors, and I may have to put an extra coat because of this. It is flat paint, so it covers a little better, but up towards the ceiling where the white lid paint was sprayed was definitley covering better than the gardz'd walls. As for as making it easier to apply the paint... I really didnt notice a difference at all.

Usually, when I spray lids, I can spray and backroll (or not)
one good coat of mopako (whether the surface is primed or not) and it looks perfect. Backrolling over the gardz made it not cover as well. Once I figured that out, I stopped backrolling any lid that wasn't huge and well lit. The backrolled and second coated ones looked no different than the ones I didnt backroll. Backrolling was a waste of time, basically, AND I had to put a second coat on top.

I am using PPG Pure Performance flat on the walls, and Mopako on the lids. Mopako is designed to be dead flat, and very easy to touch up. Im scared the paint wont touch up now. That will only matter on certain big ceilings though, so hopefully it wont screw me up too bad....

Like I said previously, I love how it it penetrates the texture to make it really hard and waterproof, but its not worth the extra headache, and in the future, I will likely use a different primer. I still have the garage to do, so I will try a couple other things, (like not spraying so thick, and backrolling) It could be that I just sprayed it too heavy, and thats why it streaked. The streaks were the worse on the biggest lighted ceilings, which I made a point to spray extra heavy. I'd love to be able to use it though, but I dont want to spend any more time and money dealing with the drawbacks.....

Last edited by Woodco; 06-28-2017 at 08:01 PM..
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