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Stain Over Paint

119K views 76 replies 19 participants last post by  frankcanpaint 
#1 ·
Hello All--

Question--How advisable is it to use a solid body (oil or latex) stain over a previously painted exterior? If preperation and priming is done correctly, does it matter. All thoughts and ideas are solicited. Thanks.

JTP
 
#2 ·
It probably will not harm anything as long has the adhesion is sufficient, it should just function like a flat paint. How ever, if it was painted already, spec the job for the proper product and put paint on it. It will be cover better, apply better, etc.

One stain I use, by Graham is marketed as stain/flat house paint. Most companies do not do it this way though. The flat paint and stain are separate products.
 
#13 ·
These Statements Are Inaccurate

One of the biggest down sides to using stain is that it just doesn't last as long as paint.
Stain wears differently then paint
Maybe in specific environments paint may last longer
None that I've lived/worked in though

A stain won't penetrate the wood at all if it has been previously painted...
...and the coating is in great condition
It might not
I also would generally consider more paint for that app
However, on poor substrates the stain can penetrate the coating, and even the wood
Keep in mind your not always looking to penetrate the wood either

...You would not get the same amount of "good" coverage as you would with paint.
What's "good" coverage?

Stain, basically, is just thin paint. It is thinned to increase penetration. It would be defeating the purpose, and adhesion won't be ideal either.
Solid stain is not just thinned paint
What purpose is being defeated?
Adhesion is just fine thanks

Oil stain will not penetrate or be accepted by the latex paint. It'll just run off and leave a mess. Latex stain is nothing more than watered down paint.
Again not sure where the thinned paint thing is from
The alkyd (hybrid) solid stains I use penetrate and are accepted by the latex paint just fine
 
#10 ·
Hello All--

Question--How advisable is it to use a solid body (oil or latex) stain over a previously painted exterior? If preperation and priming is done correctly, does it matter. All thoughts and ideas are solicited. Thanks.

JTP
Oil stain will not penetrate or be accepted by the latex paint. It'll just run off and leave a mess. Latex stain is nothing more than watered down paint. I've never had a paint company or rep able to tell me the difference. If it's painted, paint it again....Priming it will make the stain (oil) run off even quicker. hope this helps
 
#11 ·
JTP Clarifies Question

I do re-paints. Here, where I work--I must do extensive scraping and prep in order to get ready to re-paint. Many homes I do have at least 1/2 of the total square footage down to bare wood.

I usually scrape, feather sand, spot prime and top coat twice. Was just wondering, giving this situation if the staining idea as opposed to painting ideas was better or worse.

I generally re-paint over paint and re-stain-over stain as most of you suggested is the usual method. I did not realize that stain was just watered down paint. Not being a chemist or up on paint/stain technology, I thought stain and paint (latex and oil base) were significantly different in formulation.

Thanks for all the input so far.

JTP
 
#16 ·
Slick

I'm not sure if this is just one of those threads that gets off track with some misinformation, or if its such an accessible topic that everyone has a strong opinion on it.

My first instinct was to weigh in with my belief that paints are great and stains are great depending on the application. Stains are not thinned down paints. Sometimes there can be something a little weird about putting one over the other. I definitely find that the Provt type products, although lacking in color retention characteristics, they fade rather than flake and peel, which to me is the more desirable effect in the new england elements.

Now, someone will come in and say:

"Heck we put Provt on a dozen barn sashes in Billings and they all peeled the next damn day."

And some smart guy will come in and say

"Well the OVT solid oil doesnt stick to nothing and besides it drips out of my 4 inch Purdy White Doves so bad that I had to get Purdy to custom craft a 5 1/2 inch XL-Pro-Glide just so I could hold enough stain"

...and someone else will say:

"Cabots The Finish is a good one but I have to get special fiber optic lined speeflo .012 tips to get it to atomize properly and hold up to the silicon fortification of the Finish, and even so, over time the capillary action of the silicon on the pistons isnt worth the risk"

and some other little troll will crawl out from the bridge he sleeps under and say something clever like:

"uuhh while varm doun hear in da drawl whee maik are owne stayn up ta Ma Parka Farm in da planez wheneva won uv da halfers dye wee taik da inteernl organz an sqweez um inta sap bukkits an it amazein how mony difrent colerz ya ken git outta won ded cow...now dat stuf do penertait a nun frum a hunerd yardz!!"


Good night
 
#17 ·
and some other little troll will crawl out from the bridge he sleeps under and say something clever like:

"uuhh while varm doun hear in da drawl whee maik are owne stayn up ta Ma Parka Farm in da planez wheneva won uv da halfers dye wee taik da inteernl organz an sqweez um inta sap bukkits an it amazein how mony difrent colerz ya ken git outta won ded cow...now dat stuf do penertait a nun frum a hunerd yardz!!"


Good night
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
#20 ·
Stain over paint will not resist peeling IMHO since it will not function like stain over paint. I suppose if there was a large amount of peeling paint removed, that it might be worth converting to stain, instead of paint. Stain is the way I go whenever possible on my exterior jobs (over existing stain).
 
#22 ·
I feel like I can usually tell base on film build and if the paint looks to have built a film that is hiding the texture of the wood. I am beginning to wonder though if after say 3-4 repaints every 5 years if solid stain is really no different than flat paint anymore, all the coats seem to start building up in some areas and forming a film.
 
#28 ·
another disadvantage to stain is that if it fails, it is actually worse to deal with than paint. Because it really all has to come off. This church I am working on turned into a total mess because what I though was an inadequately thin coat of paint on top of primer was actually several (still inadequate) coats of stain. Turned into long extensive prep work because it doesn't not scrape or peel like paint. And I feel that my top coat will not last as long with there still being some remaining stain on there as the stain is still failing, just difficult to remove. I definitely do not recommend it. A better option might be two coats of the cabots oil based semi solid stain on raw wood. Won't peel, easy maintenance coat ever 3-4 years soaks in nicely to the wood and doesn't build much of a film but still with two coats has a solid opacity. I have an 8yo house that I am putting its second maintenance coat on this summer and it still looks brand new, just a little faded from the sun. And the owner understand the value of proper maintenance:yes:
 
#30 ·
another disadvantage to stain is that if it fails, it is actually worse to deal with than paint.

How does a stain fail?

A better option might be two coats of the cabots oil based semi solid stain on raw wood.

Doesnt Cabot recommend one coat application with this product? I believe they do. First coat penetrates the wood. Second coat has nothing to penetrate so it builds on itself into a sticky, flashy finish.
 
#33 ·
Given the situation I describe in post #11 in this thread, would you stain over the paint or paint over the paint? Thanks.

JTP
 
#34 ·
I would paint over the paint. I am not convinced that stain sticks very well to paint, just to raw wood. Not that I am an expert on this or have conducted extensive research on it, but just how I feel. I think you have a better chance keeping a paint job maintained every 5-7 years than keeping a stain job maintained over paint every 2-3 years until it just starts falling apart . . .

if its moisture problems you have something that seems to really help is either (if the siding allows) installing vents in the bottom of the clappards or scoring the bottoms of them after primer and 1st coat with a sharp 5 in 1 so they can breath. I did a house last fall with a thick coat of slow dry oil fresh start and two coats of moore guard and you can actually see the spots where the paint sealed the bottom of the boards the board below is bubbling already.
 
#39 ·
Paint it. I used Cabot Solid Stain OVT on raw T111 siding, and it absorbed great. It covered great in one coat because of it's thick viscosity while allowing the grain to show. However, where I applied it over the pre primed trim, it stayed oily without skinning over.
 
#43 ·
Stain Failure

I've seen plenty of stain failure
(Heck I've seen Bleaching Oil failures)
But they were nearly all just sprayed on right over the old coating, mold, bugs, etc...

I've also seen stain that was on way too long w/o "fail"
That's normal wear and tear though...not a premature failure
Some of these H/Os think you only should be painting/staining once every 20 years
 
#47 ·
I've seen plenty of stain failure
(Heck I've seen Bleaching Oil failures)
But they were nearly all just sprayed on right over the old coating, mold, bugs, etc...

I've also seen stain that was on way too long w/o "fail"
That's normal wear and tear though...not a premature failure
Some of these H/Os think you only should be painting/staining once every 20 years
well it doesn't help when the can they got from lowes says it has a 20 year warranty on it . . .
 
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