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Old 04-11-2011, 08:51 AM   #1
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Good morning,

-It is good to note first also that these are light oak cabinets.

This isn't so much a problem as a mystery to me. I have done a fair amount of staning/refinishing, but like most guys on here I mostly paint. So here's my issue, I have a customer who has one of those McMansions built about 9 years ago and they don't like the color stain on their kitchen cabinets. 1) I have tried to sell them on gel stains but honsetly they don't provide the look or color the customer wants. 2)I have stripped, sanded and scraped a couple of the doors for test runs and the stain does not seem to want to soak in very well like other stain jobls I've done. 3) I mentioned it before but I'll mention it again, I scraped as a final step because I have heard that sanding can actually close the pores of wood. Still the stain does not want to penetrate.

*anything I'm missing here to open up the wood pores?

also

*If you have any ideas on more contemporary looks for these customers I'm open to suggestions and pictures.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:29 AM   #2
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Antique them. Looks good with granite and stainless appliances.


Something like this. Usually they get painted white, then wiped with either Gel Stain or Glaze. ( I prefer Gel Stain...I think Glaze looks too fake, and seems to streak )

Just some pictures from the Google machine
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:57 PM   #3
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Have you tried using a pre-stain conditioner?
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:10 PM   #4
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How much darker do they want them, and what about just adding the stain to the clear coat and do multiple layers?(toner)

not saying this is the way, but yet again, a different thought trip.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:31 PM   #5
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Pre-staining or wood conditioner isn't going to do you any good. What has happened is that the prior stain and finish has penetrated into the wood, sealing the pores. The problem is that due to the graining, it may have penetrated deeper in some areas than others. Other than refacing and new doors and drawer fronts, your options are either painting or gel stains. You need to effectively get the HO to understand this. If they can't, you need to pass on the job because they'll never be happy no matter what you do.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briancreary View Post
Good morning,

-It is good to note first also that these are light oak cabinets.

This isn't so much a problem as a mystery to me. I have done a fair amount of staning/refinishing, but like most guys on here I mostly paint. So here's my issue, I have a customer who has one of those McMansions built about 9 years ago and they don't like the color stain on their kitchen cabinets. 1) I have tried to sell them on gel stains but honsetly they don't provide the look or color the customer wants. 2)I have stripped, sanded and scraped a couple of the doors for test runs and the stain does not seem to want to soak in very well like other stain jobls I've done. 3) I mentioned it before but I'll mention it again, I scraped as a final step because I have heard that sanding can actually close the pores of wood. Still the stain does not want to penetrate.


*anything I'm missing here to open up the wood pores?

also

*If you have any ideas on more contemporary looks for these customers I'm open to suggestions and pictures.
I'm certainly not an expert in refinishing/staining old cabinets...That said I had some light oak bedroom furniture dye stained to a dark brown colour by a refinisher and they look great!...All the graining is still visible and it looks better than just paint over Oak...
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:14 PM   #7
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What you need is a dye, General makes a pre mixed dye that's awesome. Read up on dye and you'll find all you need to know. You can even add the dye in your top coat to act as a toner if needed. Just be careful and if needed thin the dye and apply several coats to get desired color.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
Pre-staining or wood conditioner isn't going to do you any good. What has happened is that the prior stain and finish has penetrated into the wood, sealing the pores. The problem is that due to the graining, it may have penetrated deeper in some areas than others. Other than refacing and new doors and drawer fronts, your options are either painting or gel stains. You need to effectively get the HO to understand this. If they can't, you need to pass on the job because they'll never be happy no matter what you do.
I know acetone would help draw the oils out of some wood but would it help with something like the remnant of this existing finish?
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseyWales View Post
I'm certainly not an expert in refinishing/staining old cabinets...That said I had some light oak bedroom furniture dye stained to a dark brown colour by a refinisher and they look great!...All the graining is still visible and it looks better than just paint over Oak...
Do you have before and after pics?

Its a good idea, but wouldn't this be hard to do onsite? Seems like you would need to have a shop in place. I've never done this so I don't know. Its definitely an option if it fits the customers budget and gives them the look they want.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:07 PM   #10
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No pics,sorry...I don't even know the steps he did to dye stain the old furniture...Yeah, the guy operates a solid wood furniture factory so he's set up good with a nice spray booth......
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
-It is good to note first also that these are light oak cabinets.
Oak is actually the easiest wood to stain.
Similar ring-porous hardwoods are also much easier to stain.



Quote:
*anything I'm missing here to open up the wood pores?
The way I'm reading you post is that you sanded up to high and scraped up to a point where the stain does not stain .

Think of the pigment particles (the color) as lodging in small valleys on the surface of the wood. Sanding the wood to a very smooth surface presents less of this "texture" to hold the stain.

Last edited by StevenH; 04-14-2011 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #12
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As far as closing the pores, I think scraping closes them more than sanding. Depending on what grit you use. Plus you can always water pop them. But if you still have old finish on them it won't do anything. I like the dye idea but never used them. Cant wait to try them out.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS View Post
As far as closing the pores, I think scraping closes them more than sanding. Depending on what grit you use. Plus you can always water pop them. But if you still have old finish on them it won't do anything. I like the dye idea but never used them. Cant wait to try them out.
Scraping is almost like using a hand plane

You can use combination with dye and pigment stain or dye itself. It all depends what your trying to achieve.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:34 PM   #14
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after sanding and applying the stain top coat with polyurethane to get a darker better looking color
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=StevenH;211321]Scraping is almost like using a hand plane

I dont agree. Hand planing you are lifting the wood off. Scraping you are pressing down and pulling therefore closing the grain. Unless you are using a coarse blade.
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