Tannin Bleed Through on Pre-Primed Interior Wood - Page 2 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:49 PM   #21
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Your post stated the wood was pre-primed and "cuss"tomer didnt see where it was necessary to reprime but I always re prime factory primed wood for added insurance for reasons such as your case.It hard fo know how long that primed substrate had been sitting around and anything over 30 days or so loses it performance to do what it was intended to do.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbone View Post
Your post stated the wood was pre-primed and "cuss"tomer didnt see where it was necessary to reprime but I always re prime factory primed wood for added insurance for reasons such as your case.It hard fo know how long that primed substrate had been sitting around and anything over 30 days or so loses it performance to do what it was intended to do.
Ps. Any other approach your just Hissing into the wind I'm afraid
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:26 AM   #23
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I'd try to find the water leak first. Tannin bleed means exactly that: bleed, ie, liquid is running through the wood. Tannins are chemicals that dissolve in water. That's why you don't normally see it in interiors. Unless, of course, water is getting into the wood. Even if you prime with oil, you'll have problems because the water is getting in from behind and the primer will lift off from underneath. Is it the roof? leaky pipes? steamy showers? sounds like it's not your fault.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by burchptg View Post
I'd try to find the water leak first. Tannin bleed means exactly that: bleed, ie, liquid is running through the wood. Tannins are chemicals that dissolve in water. That's why you don't normally see it in interiors. Unless, of course, water is getting into the wood. Even if you prime with oil, you'll have problems because the water is getting in from behind and the primer will lift off from underneath. Is it the roof? leaky pipes? steamy showers? sounds like it's not your fault.
It is my understandings tannins is oils in certain wood and these continue to leech for years even after the wood was cut if left unsealed. It has nothing to do with water. That is why some woods bleed tannins and some don't. And if you use the right wood in an interior you will certainly get bleed.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:35 PM   #25
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Tell the HO to take off for the day. Use bin and crack all the windows and doors and be done with it.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:06 AM   #26
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You know what i've heard nothing but great things with that "Fresh Start" .. let us know how it worked out for ya in the end.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by burchptg View Post
I'd try to find the water leak first. Tannin bleed means exactly that: bleed, ie, liquid is running through the wood. Tannins are chemicals that dissolve in water. That's why you don't normally see it in interiors. Unless, of course, water is getting into the wood. Even if you prime with oil, you'll have problems because the water is getting in from behind and the primer will lift off from underneath. Is it the roof? leaky pipes? steamy showers? sounds like it's not your fault.
There is no water leak. This tannin bleed through is random and is all over the house on window casings, door casings, baseboard, and ceiling molding. The pieces that are bleeding are individual boards within the finger jointed boards. For instance, picture an eight foot header board of trim over a triple slider and it's made up of 15 pieces of wood. Only certain pieces are bleeding while the others are still White as can be from the three topcoats. It's truly mind boggling but it's due to the crappy primer that was applied at the factory. Nobody knows what they're using except for the company that's buying it and having it applied, and the company that's selling it. The end user never knows.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:59 PM   #28
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You know what i've heard nothing but great things with that "Fresh Start" .. let us know how it worked out for ya in the end.
Will do! I've been on vacation this week but on Monday I'll call my customer to find out the verdict on whether the Fresh Start blocked the bleed through. If it did, I'll be over there soon to apply it to the rest of the bleed stains, and to finish it off.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:40 AM   #29
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UPDATE: I called my customer last week and he said that the Benjamin Moore Fresh Start blocked the tannin bleed through so I went over there yesterday to continue the priming. What I found was that the Fresh Start did not block it out, so I didn't waste anymore time there. I told my customer that I'd do some more research on latex based products and get back to him. I've been doing a lot of reading on the XIM brand of primers/sealers. Has anyone tried these primers and if so, how did you like them?

http://ximbonder.com/?xim_products=prime-start

Personally, I believe that I am not going to get good results with a latex based product but I'm trying my hardest to appease this customer as they're really concerned about vapors.
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hissing Cobra View Post
UPDATE: I called my customer last week and he said that the Benjamin Moore Fresh Start blocked the tannin bleed through so I went over there yesterday to continue the priming. What I found was that the Fresh Start did not block it out, so I didn't waste anymore time there. I told my customer that I'd do some more research on latex based products and get back to him. I've been doing a lot of reading on the XIM brand of primers/sealers. Has anyone tried these primers and if so, how did you like them?

http://ximbonder.com/?xim_products=prime-start

Personally, I believe that I am not going to get good results with a latex based product but I'm trying my hardest to appease this customer as they're really concerned about vapors.
You're right acrylics won't stop the tannin bleed. One coat of an alkyd will. Try the odorless coverstain, or jammer, I've only ever used the odorless before and it works, but sands like a$$

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Old 08-19-2014, 10:11 PM   #31
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Reviving this thread because I wanted to share with you the results of the XIM latex based primer. Simply put, it didn't work at all. I could tell within the first five minutes that it wasn't going to work. Thus, I made the call right then and there to go to an oil based primer.

That's 3 latex based primer's that failed to hold the bleeding in check.

1. Glidden's "Gripper"
2. Benjamin Moore's "Fresh Start"
3. XIM's "Prime-Start"

After switching over to Benjamin Moore's oil Based "Fresh Start" I could tell that I was making progress. However, I needed two coats to completely kill 100% of the bleeding. Yes, the vapors were difficult for the homeowners to deal with but they understood that the oil based product was needed to rectify this problem. I finished it off with two coats of latex based White semi-gloss enamel and the woodwork looks outstanding!

Thanks all for your input!
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:20 PM   #32
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Like I said in my previous post should have tried 123 primer plus.would have saved you time and frustration factors, let alone big headache from oil fumes.Live and learn I guess.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:54 PM   #33
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I'm not sure you can really tell in five minutes with a WB stain blocker. Sometimes stains will bleed through the primer but be locked in the film and not come through the finish. I still find it hard to trust WB primers for blocking myself, but I have seen 123+ perform very well on knotty pine.

Oil is going the way of the dinosaur, going to have to adapt.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:00 PM   #34
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Really, I could tell. There was no way that it was going to cover it. It was acting the same way as the latex based Fresh Start and the latex based Gripper. I wasn't going to waste anymore time with it and went with an old, trusty product. Even with the oil, I could see that I was making progress but it did need a 2nd coat to hide it 100%.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:21 PM   #35
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Yeah, some knots just have an attitude and aren't about to be stopped easily.
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:48 PM   #36
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Yeah, some knots just have an attitude and aren't about to be stopped easily.
Sorta like knot heads.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:01 PM   #37
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Sorta like knot heads.
There's a lot of those! LOL!
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:11 PM   #38
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This is one of those countless threads I always talk about when I say, "Never use any paint that doesn't block stains." Does your high dollar paint block stains? Probably not. It is just one extra layer of protection, especially in regards to the OP. It his case, no primer would have been needed whatsoever and this post wouldn't exist.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:21 PM   #39
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This is one of those countless threads I always talk about when I say, "Never use any paint that doesn't block stains." Does your high dollar paint block stains? Probably not. It is just one extra layer of protection, especially in regards to the OP. It his case, no primer would have been needed whatsoever and this post wouldn't exist.
Are you saying he should have just used an oil based finish paint and it would have solved it or do you have an acrylic trim paint that you use that blocks tannins?
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Are you saying he should have just used an oil based finish paint and it would have solved it or do you have an acrylic trim paint that you use that blocks tannins?

I have a feeling we are hearing a legend of the mighty behr

Good to see a post of two from JP.
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