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Old 01-15-2018, 03:02 PM   #1
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Default Unique cabinet prep question

I checked out a set this morning. I generally refinish stained sets and this was, "a high end," factory painted set.
I wasn't too impressed.

So, 10 years later, some of that fuzzy wood ***t is coming up through bubbling paint. Only on a few choice areas. But still. Small in the scope of things, big to me.

My coatings of choice are BIN and Breakthrough.

I know just sanding the fuzzy wood won't get me very far. My mind is drifting towards using West systems epoxy to get those spots wicked hard, sanding and applying to perfection.....but honestly idk. Idk about flashing. I'm in uncharted territory here.

I can just sand and put down some crackshot.
I know that won't last how I want it to- I don't have a hack reputation, nor do I want to make one.

Anyone have insight or experience with this scenario?
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:03 PM   #2
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I would just sand the crap out of those spots, prime them with Bin, and sand them again, and maybe prime them again. The bin should harden them up enough to sand down without a problem.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:57 PM   #3
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I agree. So long as they don't end up with gouges (the furry bubbling is pretty pronounced).

Which brings up the question, what is a procedure if one encounters gouges? In the past, for small nail holes I've seen crackshot to suffice. For something with larger surface area, I think my harder "go-to" west systems...is overkill.....but it is in stock.....


What do ya'll use to level deep or larger surface imperfections?
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
I agree. So long as they don't end up with gouges (the furry bubbling is pretty pronounced).

Which brings up the question, what is a procedure if one encounters gouges? In the past, for small nail holes I've seen crackshot to suffice. For something with larger surface area, I think my harder "go-to" west systems...is overkill.....but it is in stock.....


What do ya'll use to level deep or larger surface imperfections?
Anything up to a 1/4" deep and wide we'll use MH ready patch. Larger holes, edges and corners get epoxy.

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Old 01-15-2018, 05:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
I checked out a set this morning. I generally refinish stained sets and this was, "a high end," factory painted set.
I wasn't too impressed.

So, 10 years later, some of that fuzzy wood ***t is coming up through bubbling paint. Only on a few choice areas. But still. Small in the scope of things, big to me.

My coatings of choice are BIN and Breakthrough.

I know just sanding the fuzzy wood won't get me very far. My mind is drifting towards using West systems epoxy to get those spots wicked hard, sanding and applying to perfection.....but honestly idk. Idk about flashing. I'm in uncharted territory here.

I can just sand and put down some crackshot.
I know that won't last how I want it to- I don't have a hack reputation, nor do I want to make one.

Anyone have insight or experience with this scenario?
Assume you are talking about MDF - right?
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:17 PM   #6
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you got it @RH . Its a case of fuzzy, somewhat water damaged painted MDF..."high end," cabinets.

I don't doubt that they paid a lot.

Thanks @PRC for the Ready patch recommendation! Haven't tried that one out yet. I see it brought up on the forum here and there.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:51 PM   #7
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Ready patch goes on really great, but it shrinks like a mofo. Crawfords is good. Today I even busted out some automotive Glazing putty.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:52 PM   #8
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50/50 mix of Crawford's (green can) and elders wood filler is my go to. Bondo for rebuilding corners,edges,etc. Or whatever else needs something a little tougher. Then bomb can it with bin to eliminate flashing. Do it till you like it. Especially under breakthrough..

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Old 01-15-2018, 08:07 PM   #9
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I agree with the BIN comment. I usually do two coats (white or tinted) primer because (the low voc) Breakthrough covers like ****.

From what I understand bondo doesn't penetrate as well as west systems, or am I mistaken?
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:14 PM   #10
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For a bullet proof repair,
clean those holes and craters or whatever is there.apply a light coat of fiberglass resin over naked MDF and let it dry.
Get your bondo and mix the blue hardener.spread and cover the area.let it dry and sand down to a smooth surface.
Use vinyl sealer or epoxy sealer for the repaired area for moisture protection.not BIN.

you are ready for your color coat.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:12 PM   #11
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Great call @Technogod . I take it this family is terrible with water at the sink- hence this problem area. I've never used vinyl sealer or epoxy sealer- have never needed it+I likely isn't readily available.... special order thing.
This scenario does seem to call for something other than BIN because of it's poor moisture resistance.
It is really just a few select spots that have this fuzz/raw mdf mess going on
Can it be used to spot prime? Or must I hit entire pieces with the stuff?
any risk of flashing if I were to spray a waterborne like breakthrough over it?

The particular really bad spot is one of those fixed drawers under the sink counter.
There are other worn spots just at the door handles of multiple doors.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
Great call @Technogod . I take it this family is terrible with water at the sink- hence this problem area. I've never used vinyl sealer or epoxy sealer- have never needed it+I likely isn't readily available.... special order thing.
This scenario does seem to call for something other than BIN because of it's poor moisture resistance.
It is really just a few select spots that have this fuzz/raw mdf mess going on
Can it be used to spot prime? Or must I hit entire pieces with the stuff?
any risk of flashing if I were to spray a waterborne like breakthrough over it?

The particular really bad spot is one of those fixed drawers under the sink counter.
There are other worn spots just at the door handles of multiple doors.
Thank you.
yeah.you can spot prime with them as long as the substrate is %100 percent acrylic.Also If those primers are not and easy reach for you at least use something can handle moisture.
Mdf is one of the most vulnerable material for moisture.almost like a sponge soaks what ever near.
Anything %100 percent acrylic is no problem over any of those primers.you can use safely.Just do not sand over 220 grit.can be adhesion problem and can peal.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:53 PM   #13
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Well I just did a set of cabinets with mdf water damage. Fortunately most of the damage was on the backs of the drawers and doors but there was a bunch of it. I sanded most of the fuzz off and hit it with several spray coats of BIN. First coat soaks in so fast you will think you missed it. Even applied some foam brush BIN until it was no longer adsorbing primer. Hand sanded and top coated with Kem Aqua + three coats. I am confident that this is twice as good as the original finish. As far as craters chips old handle holes I use Timbermate waterbased wood putty. Sands like a dream in 24 hours and shrinks less than any filler I have used. I thin it to consistency of bondo and use it like bondo. It is an excellent grain filler. On the same job I used it on rough mdf shelves that had significant water damage with cratering. After patching and a couple skim coats the shelves look better than the cabinets. You have to sand really really flat (400-600) I use block sander. My biggest problem is that these products will allow you to achieve perfection and you are actually creating a higher quality product that the original. I like Technogods idea of vinyl sealer....I think that would seal that fuzzy mdf better that 5 coats of BIN. Good luck!
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:22 AM   #14
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Ok everyone make sure you put your coffee down and have a seat, i have a recommendation that i have had good success with in the past for "fuzzy" or soft wood.

Ready? You've been warned!

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-wood-hardener
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
Ok everyone make sure you put your coffee down and have a seat, i have a recommendation that i have had good success with in the past for "fuzzy" or soft wood.

Ready? You've been warned!

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-wood-hardener


A flock of frogs just flew over my house.


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Old 01-16-2018, 12:38 PM   #16
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You're one of the lucky ones.
I thought he was kidding about the coffee.
When I read it, my breakfast smoothie jumped right out the other end.

I thought I was getting into paint procedure information, not sorcery.
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
Ok everyone make sure you put your coffee down and have a seat, i have a recommendation that i have had good success with in the past for "fuzzy" or soft wood.

Ready? You've been warned!

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-wood-hardener
Ya but it has an ugly label unlike this stuff
https://www.pcepoxy.com/products/woo.../pc-petrifier/
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:37 PM   #18
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Default Minwax Wood Hardener vs PC-Petrifier

Since the PC-Petrifier is water based, I was curious to see what was on the internet regarding such and found this from 2006:

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/81543-wood-hardener/

Here are 2 posts in it from the same poster:

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I'm doing comparison Tests on the MinWax and PC-Petrifier Hardeners, and so far the MinWax is the Winner. Both seem to penetrate the wood very well but the MinWax drys quicker, and more important 'Harder'. The Petrifier does have a dispenser nozzle on bottle and the MinWax is in a metal cap can (needed since it evaporates so quickly). They are very different formulas, MinWax is clear and the Petrifier is a milky white color. The Petrifier doesn't say what's in it but it kinda looks like thinned Elmers Glue. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I haven't tried painting the Petrifier yet, since it didn't seem completely dry yet, but I know the MinWax paints very well after sanding. I will try painting the Petrifier tomorrow.

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Well, the PC-Petrifier Failed my Tests, Even after drying overnight it was Flacky, where it was thick on the surface. Of course it sanded okay and painted okay but don't think it drys hard enough to a good base for painting. The MinWax sands and paints well, So it or the Epoxy types are definitly the ones to use on external wood that is going to be varnished or painted. The Petrifier would be okay to use on internal wood that only needs sealing, to keep out temporary moisture, because it does that. But I doubt it would hold up to prolonged soaking like the MinWax or the Epoxy types would. So it's the Ol' saying 'You Get what you Pay For', Gotta pay more to get the Good stuff. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In my mind I would think that a solvent based hardener would be less likely to swell the fibers of MDF than a water based hardener. Any thoughts anyone?

woodyos
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Since the PC-Petrifier is water based, I was curious to see what was on the internet regarding such and found this from 2006:

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/81543-wood-hardener/

Here are 2 posts in it from the same poster:

Speedster
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Report post x #17
Posted April 12, 2006
I'm doing comparison Tests on the MinWax and PC-Petrifier Hardeners, and so far the MinWax is the Winner. Both seem to penetrate the wood very well but the MinWax drys quicker, and more important 'Harder'. The Petrifier does have a dispenser nozzle on bottle and the MinWax is in a metal cap can (needed since it evaporates so quickly). They are very different formulas, MinWax is clear and the Petrifier is a milky white color. The Petrifier doesn't say what's in it but it kinda looks like thinned Elmers Glue. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I haven't tried painting the Petrifier yet, since it didn't seem completely dry yet, but I know the MinWax paints very well after sanding. I will try painting the Petrifier tomorrow.

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Well, the PC-Petrifier Failed my Tests, Even after drying overnight it was Flacky, where it was thick on the surface. Of course it sanded okay and painted okay but don't think it drys hard enough to a good base for painting. The MinWax sands and paints well, So it or the Epoxy types are definitly the ones to use on external wood that is going to be varnished or painted. The Petrifier would be okay to use on internal wood that only needs sealing, to keep out temporary moisture, because it does that. But I doubt it would hold up to prolonged soaking like the MinWax or the Epoxy types would. So it's the Ol' saying 'You Get what you Pay For', Gotta pay more to get the Good stuff. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In my mind I would think that a solvent based hardener would be less likely to swell the fibers of MDF than a water based hardener. Any thoughts anyone?

woodyos
Really? It's sad that Minwax is the "good stuff" this time.

Actually the Minwax wood hardener is similar to the SW Sherwood Homoclad sealer I've been asking about for months now. Maybe a little thicker.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Really? It's sad that Minwax is the "good stuff" this time.

Actually the Minwax wood hardener is similar to the SW Sherwood Homoclad sealer I've been asking about for months now. Maybe a little thicker.
I am really surprised too. I picked that stuff up for exterior use. I hate that yellow can with the M on it so I figured anything with a fancy label it must be better. At least the PC stuff is supposed to be less nasty to work with.

I wonder if the 3M stuff is any good? the SDS has some great sounding chemicals at least.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...Wood-Restorer/

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