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Old 10-04-2014, 12:43 AM   #1
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Ok, it appears that because of all of these new exotic wall coverings, I'm going to have to author information sheets for different kinds of material.
I just ducked out of having to pay for some glass beaded material but it hangs in the balance whether or not I'm going to be compensated for the labor.

Here's what I see developing... The manufacturer is providing to the seller but neither of them is informing the consumer what idiosyncrasies may be inherent in the material.
I'd appreciate some insights on certain wallpapers and I'll post what I write.

I'm aging but I still have a few years in me and I DO NOT want to put up with what I've been dealing with the past few weeks.

On one job I was given a bamboo material that couldn't be cut. The designer found an installer from Austin to come down to install it but he couldn't either. The designer and homeowner were very offended that this material was slipped into a book of normal materials without warning.

I have similar reactions to high gloss, dark, metallic, heavy/thick materials, grasscloth's seams, Hunter green/ Navy blue and black wallpapers etc...

Also, any insights on the instructions they use, or the three strip rule. I could make a career of just ordering defective material and then charging the manufacturer for hanging it.

The sellers seem to use us as scapegoats for things they should be responsible for. My contract is with the homeowner or designer, not the sellers.
In the past I have never charged for lost work because of flawed material but with the way these high end materials are starting to flood the market, I may have to change my policy.

I've always prided myself on being able to make inferior papers work but it's different now, not like the days when you could hide the bad strips behind the fridge or double cut.

Any help out there? Tomorrow I'm going to a job where the paper was very thick and looked beautiful when installed the first time. The guy who hung the shelf pierced a water pipe. When I replaced the wall, it was the wall that I had started on, therefore I couldn't just strip the entire strip because the lip was underneath the paper on the side walls. I need to explain in writing up front what they should expect when they like these specialty materials... in writing.

I hope to put the fear of God in the hearts of the manufacturers. They can't get away with carving bogus rules in stone. I want to let the consumers know who's really responsible for quality when the technical end of the installation is dictated by physics.

Thanks


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Old 10-04-2014, 03:29 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Ok, it appears that because of all of these new exotic wall coverings, I'm going to have to author information sheets for different kinds of material.
I just ducked out of having to pay for some glass beaded material but it hangs in the balance whether or not I'm going to be compensated for the labor.

Here's what I see developing... The manufacturer is providing to the seller but neither of them is informing the consumer what idiosyncrasies may be inherent in the material.
I'd appreciate some insights on certain wallpapers and I'll post what I write.

I'm aging but I still have a few years in me and I DO NOT want to put up with what I've been dealing with the past few weeks.

On one job I was given a bamboo material that couldn't be cut. The designer found an installer from Austin to come down to install it but he couldn't either. The designer and homeowner were very offended that this material was slipped into a book of normal materials without warning.

I have similar reactions to high gloss, dark, metallic, heavy/thick materials, grasscloth's seams, Hunter green/ Navy blue and black wallpapers etc...

Also, any insights on the instructions they use, or the three strip rule. I could make a career of just ordering defective material and then charging the manufacturer for hanging it.

The sellers seem to use us as scapegoats for things they should be responsible for. My contract is with the homeowner or designer, not the sellers.
In the past I have never charged for lost work because of flawed material but with the way these high end materials are starting to flood the market, I may have to change my policy.

I've always prided myself on being able to make inferior papers work but it's different now, not like the days when you could hide the bad strips behind the fridge or double cut.

Any help out there? Tomorrow I'm going to a job where the paper was very thick and looked beautiful when installed the first time. The guy who hung the shelf pierced a water pipe. When I replaced the wall, it was the wall that I had started on, therefore I couldn't just strip the entire strip because the lip was underneath the paper on the side walls. I need to explain in writing up front what they should expect when they like these specialty materials... in writing.

I hope to put the fear of God in the hearts of the manufacturers. They can't get away with carving bogus rules in stone. I want to let the consumers know who's really responsible for quality when the technical end of the installation is dictated by physics.

Thanks


I feel you're pain and wish you the best of luck
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:50 AM   #3
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UD,

The NGPP was originally founded to "to put the fear of God in the hearts of the manufacturers", but now they share a bed.

Some products are inferior and I've pointed out to many of these new "boutique" paper designers where they've gone wrong. Lots of thanks, little results.

As to bamboo, you CAN'T cut it with normal tools. The correct process is to template. Hang a type II vinyl, trim, remove, transfer cuts to the bamboo, and cut with shears or even tin snips. The same is basically true with the glass beaded wallpaper. Cost of installation is three times that of a normal install.

In this market, it is up to us to LEARN how to install these new materials. Or bow out of the job.

I have found that even issuing an "information sheet" it will not be read. If you get a job that calls for some of the exotics, either learn the process and charge appropriately or refuse the job.

A lot of the boutiques need special handling, pasting, and/or hanging skills. One of my favorites from "Grow House Grow" just needs careful pasting and booking (you CAN'T book it, or the ink starts to flake off). After two installs I learned the right timing and wrote instructions to remind myself.

The beauty of the internet is that there are prolly hangers who have installed whatever paper you have and can give to tips. Couple of months ago I had a Jill Malek design. Two hangers, one from Calif the other from NJ told me their stories of woe and solutions. With their input, my install was successful (and profitable)

The industry ain't gonna change, it's WE who have to adapt.



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Old 10-04-2014, 08:59 AM   #4
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UD,



In this market, it is up to us to LEARN how to install these new materials. Or bow out of the job.

Bull, I'm talking about materials that are inherently evil and have things about them that can't be fixed or adjusted. Unless you say you can hang everything and have the seams disappear and the corners meld to the wall without distraction. I don't buy it.

I'll pay you to fly out here and install, but you have to guarantee you can do it, otherwise you pay for your own expenses. Oh wait, what are the specs that we would have to agree on to be a passable job.

And they don't have to read it, they just have to sign it. It could be like terms of service contracts.

As far as the template thing, I don't want to learn, or even do that for a one time thing, that's ridiculous, do it once and then never again just to stay in the industry. Sheesh.

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Old 10-04-2014, 03:35 PM   #5
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Bull, I'm talking about materials that are inherently evil and have things about them that can't be fixed or adjusted. Unless you say you can hang everything and have the seams disappear and the corners meld to the wall without distraction. I don't buy it.

I'll pay you to fly out here and install, but you have to guarantee you can do it, otherwise you pay for your own expenses. Oh wait, what are the specs that we would have to agree on to be a passable job.

And they don't have to read it, they just have to sign it. It could be like terms of service contracts.

As far as the template thing, I don't want to learn, or even do that for a one time thing, that's ridiculous, do it once and then never again just to stay in the industry. Sheesh.

HEY, I'm not saying there are NO defective goods in this industry, I'm just saying there are new materials that need a new set of skills.

The Non-wovens I generally hate, especially from Cole and Son that DEMAND they be hung on a liner, but I learned what they need. There's a particular O&L that uses metallic inks whose seams were a real bear for me, but others who also had the same issues tried a wheat and clay mix and tamed those evil seams.

And if you ain't gonna template bamboo, Beadazzled, Mother of Peal, and other ultra high end (and butt ugly) exotics, then don't bother bidding on them.

Now as far as a HO signing a disclaimer, all you are saying is that you do not have the skill set to install these bastardly exotics. If you don't WANT to learn new skills, that's fine. There are others who will, and charge accordingly.

I tell ya, I am just SOOO happy to be getting out of the industry as these exotics and boutiques are making headway. I HATE bamboo, I despise beads, I abhor some of the flaky-inked non-wovens. I will (and have) passed of a few bead jobs because I just do not like them - and I've been officially trained to install them.

Stay within your wheelhouse if you like, I just strongly advise against issuing a statement condemning materials that others are installing regularly. Instead, find the guys and gals that CAN install them and sub those jobs out.

I am sure there are some hangers in the SA area that can. I don't know any names off hand, the SA Chapt sorta fizzled. I can give you names of some hangers around the country that are well versed in different goods, if you want to fly them in.

And NO Beadazzled can not be hung "seamless", that's an impossibility, so you have to balance the panels like a run of the mill grass. (Well actually, a Boston hanger has discovered a way to cut the panels so beads over lap the seams and look better)



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Old 10-04-2014, 04:28 PM   #6
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Addendum:

It is beneficial to be in constant communication with the hanging elite around the country. This is the best facet of that national organization for paperhangers. Unfortunately the powers that be and the management company are all horses asses and drive good people away or bury them in bullsh!t.

HOWEVER, anyone can go to the conventions (non-club members pay extra) and learn from the most capable hangers in the country. AND non-members can join numerous internet paperhanging forums and learn from those top-notch professionals.

Knowledge is like opportunity, it don't come knocking on your door, you have to seek it out.



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Old 10-04-2014, 06:18 PM   #7
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Well now you make fine points, I get it, it just took another poke with a stick.
I'm rethinking things for sure.

My only experience with my NGPP membership was all the ads they sent, and my experience at a convention was sheer boredom. Wasn't worth the free quart of Prepz.

What I hate is leaving a job that passes but having the feeling of letting the home owner down, through no fault of my own.

I can hang all those you mentioned, I've pasted without being able to book.
I'm accustomed to people being in awe of what I've done, not cringing as I deposit the check.
The seams are a consistent issue and both outside and inside corners are becoming a nightmare.

Maybe this thread just should have been a rant.

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Old 10-05-2014, 03:59 AM   #8
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Well now you make fine points, I get it, it just took another poke with a stick.
I'm rethinking things for sure.

My only experience with my NGPP membership was all the ads they sent, and my experience at a convention was sheer boredom. Wasn't worth the free quart of Prepz.

What I hate is leaving a job that passes but having the feeling of letting the home owner down, through no fault of my own.

I can hang all those you mentioned, I've pasted without being able to book.
I'm accustomed to people being in awe of what I've done, not cringing as I deposit the check.
The seams are a consistent issue and both outside and inside corners are becoming a nightmare.

Maybe this thread just should have been a rant.

I do believe it was (is)
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