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Old 10-25-2019, 04:28 PM   #1
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Default Clear Coationgs for Table Tops / Warning!



I would NOT use any water based coating. I just tried some left over Varathane Nano Defence premium floor finish on my own dinner table. The first use showed a problem! It promptly got white water marks where the water pitcher sat. It faded afterward but looks terrible while present. I am going to sand it down and refinish with a solvent based product ASAP. (It also makes me dubious about using such products on floors where they may gets spills, wet feet or dripping rain wear on them. I'll be sticking with solvent based product from now on. After all, quick dry and re-coat is not the be all / end all in finishing!
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:03 PM   #2
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I use Fameowood Glaze coat it's water born 1 to 1 epoxy works good...


https://glazecoat.com/famowood-glaze-coat-clear-epoxy/
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Old 10-25-2019, 08:56 PM   #3
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Don't use floor finish on a dining table, check!!
I've use GF High Performance WB Poly and it was great
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:52 PM   #4
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I don’t think that epoxy is waterborne at all. Probably a 100% solids epoxy.
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifertemple View Post
[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.painttalk.com/images/smilies/sad.png[/IMG]

I would NOT use any water based coating. I just tried some left over Varathane Nano Defence premium floor finish on my own dinner table. The first use showed a problem! It promptly got white water marks where the water pitcher sat. It faded afterward but looks terrible while present. I am going to sand it down and refinish with a solvent based product ASAP. (It also makes me dubious about using such products on floors where they may gets spills, wet feet or dripping rain wear on them. I'll be sticking with solvent based product from now on. After all, quick dry and re-coat is not the be all / end all in finishing!
How long did you let it cure before using?
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:17 PM   #6
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I thought you said you weren’t gonna use that stuff again, let alone on your own table! I think I mentioned in your earlier thread that I had water permeate 5 finish coats after full cure.

I too prefer solvent borne/uralkyds, although the lighter color trends don’t permit me to use it as much as I’d like due to the yellowing.

Without getting too fancy, a couple of times when in a pinch, I’ve used Bona Traffic HD Satin 2K WB floor finish on tabletops. It’s easily obtainable at almost any hardwood flooring supply. It can be roller or pad applied, is self leveling, and will yield as close to a sprayed finish as you can get. The finish is pretty much bomb proof. I’ve had standing water on the Bona for upwards 2 weeks in some instances, not leaving the slightest blemish, even having spilled lye on it..and Not When Making Peel Away!

I used the GF High Performance once. It’s GF’s consumer brand finish. I had used it only in a pinch on two fixed cabinet panels adjoining a vanity sink countertop. The finish didn’t last a month before water spotting after a 4 week cure. Ended up stripping them and using a WB 2K instead. IMO, The GF HP has pretty poor chemical and water resistance.
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Old 10-26-2019, 12:17 AM   #7
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This finisher recommends adding the CIC Polyurethane hardener to the CIC water base conversion varnish.

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Old 10-26-2019, 12:34 AM   #8
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How long did you let it cure before using?
48 hours where the product recommends 24 BUT I also find the water borne is not as bright and clear as solvent based. The look is not as nice.
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Old 10-26-2019, 12:57 AM   #9
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I thought you said you werenít gonna use that stuff again, let alone on your own table!
I won't buy it again; this was leavings from the prior job. (I almost never toss material, I use it to play and experiment with on my own time.) Any experiments I do are ALWAYS on my own stuff! I'd never do anything that was not tried & true over time on a paid contract. With my own stuff I can redo it as many times and in as many ways as it takes to make it right again. It was a whimsical experiment that I did not like the result of. It is still really hard to apply with out getting those dang micro bubbles! I like the clarity of the solvent finishes better and IMO they are tougher than water based. Also the water borne products react badly to a fair variety of cleaning products. I've only used the one product, once. It was my first time trying water borne clear coats and in far to many ways I was not happy using it. I'm sticking with solvent based polys for as long as they will let us buy it! Besides, I'm always happier using products I have always used and where I know exactly what to expect. One does need to experiment with new developments in coatings or risk redundancy! I have on occasion used new product and became a committed user after a first use. Water borne clear coat was not such a product.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:05 AM   #10
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I use Fameowood Glaze coat it's water born 1 to 1 epoxy works good...
https://glazecoat.com/famowood-glaze-coat-clear-epoxy/
I have used such epoxy coatings & loved them but they are NOT water borne. They are true acrylic resins and not for fine furniture IMO. I once did a wood floor with the stuff, I used it to refinish a number of kitchen counter tops. No doubt about it, great stuff, though a bit messy to work with on very large surfaces where you can not take it out to the workshop.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:16 AM   #11
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This finisher recommends adding the CIC Polyurethane hardener to the CIC water base conversion varnish.

https://youtu.be/A33HFAH_KWI
It looks good here and of course, not available in Canada that I could find. I would definitely be game to give it a try! I can hardly believe that chemical resistance! DANG! I expect the only way to remove it is power sanding. The video makes an impressive case!
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:59 AM   #12
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Just finished 16 windows, 6 doors, base, casings, some cabinets, and a small T&G wall (all white oak) with a waterborne Varathane clear and I hated the product. Foaming, not sandable between coats, and I was chasing runs for up to 20 minutes after applying.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:19 AM   #13
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48 hours where the product recommends 24 BUT I also find the water borne is not as bright and clear as solvent based. The look is not as nice.
Just about any single component poly acrylic will go white when subjected to water before cured. The product takes 2 weeks + before it develops water resistance, some of the clears taking upwards a month. I think the cure time on that product is 14 days. Iíve seen water spotting and recovery on just about every single component WB clear if placed into service only 2 days after application.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Eagle Cap Painter View Post
Just finished 16 windows, 6 doors, base, casings, some cabinets, and a small T&G wall (all white oak) with a waterborne Varathane clear and I hated the product. Foaming, not sandable between coats, and I was chasing runs for up to 20 minutes after applying.
Horrible stuff to work with! I'm betting your done with such products , as well.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:24 AM   #15
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Just about any single component poly acrylic will go white when subjected to water before cured. The product takes 2 weeks + before it develops water resistance, some of the clears taking upwards a month. I think the cure time on that product is 14 days. Iíve seen water spotting and recovery on just about every single component WB clear if placed into service only 2 days after application.
So Varathane lied about putting into service after 24 hours! What ever the explanations, a floor finish that needs 15-30 before going into service will Never work for me. As noted, all in, nothing about the product made me happy. I'm just done with WB CC!
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:28 AM   #16
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Don't use floor finish on a dining table, check!!
I've use GF High Performance WB Poly and it was great
May be great stuff but I'm not a gambling sort, "once burned..."
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Old 10-26-2019, 12:19 PM   #17
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So Varathane lied about putting into service after 24 hours! What ever the explanations, a floor finish that needs 15-30 before going into service will Never work for me. As noted, all in, nothing about the product made me happy. I'm just done with WB CC!
The tech sheets states 14 days. Being in the floor finishing business for a good 30 years, itís industry common practice not to use water on WB floor finishes during the first two weeks, Varathane neglecting to state that on their tech sheets, although most floor finishes clearly state it.

Below is a pic of the WB Varathane Ultimate Matte. I tested the product for water and chemical resistance because it had a nice look and clarity about it for a matte, also having a good open working time as a brushable option that didnít foam. The finish was subjected to standing water after the 2 week cure time, the water having permeated the film within 1/2 hr. I added some crosslinker to it, speeding up the cure time and creating a tighter chain. With the crosslinker the product performed very well, although I never used the product, often testing newer products.

The second photo is of a dining room service console that was originally finished by the fabricator with Target Coatings WB lacquer, the finish failing within the first 2 years.

Just for kicks I refinished the top with Varathane Satin WB Diamond, the same product now having a different name. The photo was taken 7 years after refinishing it with the Varathane, the finish on a heavy-use food service top exhibiting -zero- failure after 7 years. Go figure! This was shortly before being introduced to Euro WB 2K finishes when durable WB options were somewhat limited.
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Clear Coationgs for Table Tops / Warning!-5e584808-6906-4b57-a936-ba3758c1c477.jpg  

Clear Coationgs for Table Tops / Warning!-18eaa087-9306-4c4a-8138-3705741dfd0e.jpg  

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Old 10-26-2019, 12:35 PM   #18
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The tech sheets states 14 days. Being in the floor finishing business for a good 30 years, itís industry common practice not to use water on WB floor finishes during the first two weeks, Varathane neglecting to state that on their tech sheets, although most floor finishes clearly state it.
That being the case, they should not say it can be put into service in 24 hours and if it is an occupied home you really don't get 30 days or even 2 weeks. With solvent based it may be 30 days to cure but can resist water as soon as it is dry to touch.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:11 PM   #19
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It looks good here and of course, not available in Canada that I could find. I would definitely be game to give it a try! I can hardly believe that chemical resistance! DANG! I expect the only way to remove it is power sanding. The video makes an impressive case!
I'm in Canada too and it looks like most of the distributors for the CIC coatings are in California. I won't order any either. You'd have to order a lot more than you need in case of an emergency on the job and the shipping fees, etc, would be ridiculous.

I remember testing a Haps free waterbased conversion varnish from Valspar (Zenith) years ago and it was tough as nails. I rarely do a clear coat so I haven't used it on a job. Valspar Zenith is now owned by Axalta in North America, so the brand name has changed also. I'd expect that you can add a hardener and/or a cross linker to it if desired.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:47 PM   #20
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@Mr Smith I am a KISS principal sort. If I use solvent based I know exactly what to expect and the products I prefer for specific applications. When it requires a lot of trouble to arrange for products not to be found on local shelves I am highly unlikely to use them. Also, I'm near ready to retire. I don't really want to do a lot more product testing when I can use methods that have worked for over 40 years.
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