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Old 01-20-2018, 08:54 AM   #1
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Default Seriously damaged cabinets

Hey all,

I'm not kidding with the title. The lady tried cleaning with oven cleaner

I just read through a great thread by @RH
https://www.painttalk.com/f90/cabinet...process-63209/

but I have to take it a step further, what to do with this level of damage???

I don't want to use chemical strippers. I've sanded one to bare wood and it's a pain. Sanding the little edges is not fun.
I'm seeking tips for sanding those sections to bare wood.

Besides that the orbital works great for the larger areas.

Also, Not all of them are this screwed. Maybe 1/4. Do you think I can get away with scuff sanding and @RH 's process to match the bare wood ones to the others?

The plan is for them to stay the color presented, maybe even a slightly lighter tone.


I've never "attached" photos before here. If the attachment doesn't work, this link to google photos aught to work.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wqI5ux4st7mF50aC2
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:58 AM   #2
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Prime and paint. You could try a wood bleach but i doubt it would work. May be worth a try though. Probably cheaper in the long run just to replace them.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:26 AM   #3
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If they were to be replaced, I wouldn't be getting the work!
This is a referral through a nearby cabinet/tile company.

That was one of the amendments to my estimate- if I felt like all was hopeless to refinish to either paint the set or replace doors. Unfortunately the bases are 1.5 hrs away.

I tested one and the black mess is sanding out with the orbital. I just don't want to hand sand all the other crevices...for obvious reasons.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
If they were to be replaced, I wouldn't be getting the work!
This is a referral through a nearby cabinet/tile company.

That was one of the amendments to my estimate- if I felt like all was hopeless to refinish to either paint the set or replace doors. Unfortunately the bases are 1.5 hrs away.

I tested one and the black mess is sanding out with the orbital. I just don't want to hand sand all the other crevices...for obvious reasons.
I'd say try some wood bleach in those crevices if you can sand through it pretty easily. (well, relatively) It might take some of that discoloration out without having to sand down in them. Def worth a try.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
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I'd say try some wood bleach in those crevices if you can sand through it pretty easily. (well, relatively) It might take some of that discoloration out without having to sand down in them. Def worth a try.
Isn't oven cleaner usually sodium hydroxide?
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Old 01-20-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
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With light colored cabinets I think you might find that it will be tough to get rid of that dark staining without sanding it down pretty well. Even then, there might be a bit of it still visible. I did a set this past summer that were the same light color and in similar condition. But they were all smooth, no panels or framing, and pretty easy to sand out.

You can sure try the bleaching process to see if it helps. Otherwise sand as needed, match the color and restain, top coat. Of course the biggest issue will be restraining so the damaged spots don’t stand out (duh). So sanding out a ways and feathering out the new stain into the older will be necessary. Sometimes I find sanding out the entire face of frames is needed so if there is a slight color change, it will be between there and the panels - something that won’t be as noticeable. Color changes on the routed edges will be least noticeable.

Oven cleaner???
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:13 PM   #7
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The discoloration goes beyond the finish into the wood.

I'm going to go at just one door- none of the wood is stained, it's all natural w/ clear.
Process as of now is just sand down, wood bleach, and poly.
If the poly activates some chemical mess, I'll start digging for more ideas.
Perhaps trying a coat of sealcoat then poly. If the color is off, sealcoat, stain, then poly.
Many options....hopefully everything will go simply and be fine.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:26 PM   #8
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Just a head’s up, even though the wood is unstained, if you try and refinish just a damaged corner you may find that after it’s cleaned and sanded it won’t match the rest of the door due to ambering of the wood and clear coat over time. So some light staining may be necessary to get a uniform look.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:34 PM   #9
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okay, yeah, my plan was to sand them all down. Fully.
I'll consider that as a shortcut. the HO gave me a sample door from another set in the house that's a smidge brighter than these. Basically, she wants them to look the same.
When sanded to bare wood they match. I don't mind the extra labor too much, things are a bit slow this month for me. Thankfully.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:19 PM   #10
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Looks like the sodium or potassium hydroxide in oven cleaner has oxidized the tannins in the wood and turned them dark (much like ammonia does on oak). I would be surprised if it all sands out. Try the back of one door and sand it all the way down to bare wood. Since you are a BIN user, you can lightly tone and seal with clear shellac and then topcoat with poly of choice. You can darken clear shellac with a little amber shellac. Zinnser makes several different shades. I have found that the most shellacs have very little wax in them so don't worry about adherence of topcoat over waxed shellac. Still maybe cheaper to replace. I am assuming frames are OK?
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:56 PM   #11
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Coverstain with Advance top coat= problem solved for me.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:46 AM   #12
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@Lazerlnes the point of our work is to serve the customer not ourselves.

As I mentioned, my estimate had multiple options put on the table.
@Tprice2193 It sanded out. idk about replacement pricing. The fact that a cabinet shop has me working on it says new is pricier.
I don't know if sealing it is all that necessary. The cabinet shop just wants me to sand it down and clear...see what happens, that's what I'm gonna do.
I suppose the sealcoat would be to help prevent fisheyes and the like?
Why BIN over sealcoat?

And actually ambering is something I'm avoiding. I want it as bright and close to the natural wood tone as possible.
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:17 AM   #13
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Why can't I edit my last post?

I'll rephrase the question. Why would you choose BIN instead of sealcoat?
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
Why can't I edit my last post?
Editing is only available for I believe 30 minutes after posting. Not sure why, that's just the way it is.

Only thing I have to add to this thread is I'd be concerned being around the HO in the kitchen. When someone decides oven cleaner is something they should use to clean their cabinets, one has to seriously question their judgement generally.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:23 PM   #15
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Back to the original question in the first post, I have a Festool which actually can be manipulated to hit much of those edges. It’s not perfect for them but actually gets much of the profile. Assume you have used sanding sponges. They come in pretty handy for getting difficult areas.
Also, a brief online search turns up a bunch of methods for creating custom sanding blocks for specific profiles. I’ve never made one but might be worth looking into.
Personally I am not a big fan of chemical strippers but some here have good lunch with them.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:25 PM   #16
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Thanks for the feedback....You are correct sealcoat clear shellac sealer is exactly what you want to use not BIN. Sorry that didn't come off right. I use a more amber shellac mixed with sealcoat to get a slight tone to emphasize patterns in the wood. Esp if using a waterbased clear topcoat. I suggested this as a way of matching to old finish if necessary. Glad the sanding is getting the dark stuff out...what do you plan to topcoat with?
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH View Post
Personally I am not a big fan of chemical strippers but some here have good lunch with them.
Good lunch with a chemical stripper?! Man, those guys must be tough!

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Old 01-21-2018, 04:05 PM   #18
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Good lunch with a chemical stripper?! Man, those guys must be tough!

LOL... just caught that... not going to edit it.

My best typo yet is still, ...spaying with an HVLP... Ouch!
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Old 01-21-2018, 04:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center_line_Painting View Post
@Lazerlnes the point of our work is to serve the customer not ourselves.

As I mentioned, my estimate had multiple options put on the table.
@Tprice2193 It sanded out. idk about replacement pricing. The fact that a cabinet shop has me working on it says new is pricier.
I don't know if sealing it is all that necessary. The cabinet shop just wants me to sand it down and clear...see what happens, that's what I'm gonna do.
I suppose the sealcoat would be to help prevent fisheyes and the like?
Why BIN over sealcoat?

And actually ambering is something I'm avoiding. I want it as bright and close to the natural wood tone as possible.
I'm sorry, by avoiding sanding down to bare wood below the discoloration.I assumed you where looking for an easier option for yourself. Anything short of that will look like sheet i.m.h.o. so painted is what I would offer up as an option to put a quality finish on those cabs. I'm always for producing the best results for the customer and anything short of sanding below discoloration leave me to paint. But since you decided to sand it down and they will pay for it by all means that is the best option. I wouldn't lose my shirt on it. They would really have to pay for what it will take or it's not on the table.

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Old 01-21-2018, 09:32 PM   #20
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LOL @RH

big thanks for the sanding block idea. It's great to have such a wealth of knowledge to access here, I would've never thought of that! I may resort to the stripper to boost production.

I just bought a Dremel that has a certain sanding head that might get to all the right corners. I'll share if that works. No way I'm capable of getting anything Festool....yet. 2nd yr of business.
@Tprice2193 My topcoat will either be Lenmar satin aqua plastic or general finishes satin waterborne poly. Both in stock. I'll probably flip a coin.
Curious, (since I've never done it or thought to) what's the amber tinted product you add to your top coat process?
Reading through RH's thread kind of sold me on the emtech WB conversion varnish. For next time that is. I'm on the same on the same page as RH regarding the evolution of paint technology and the need to protect the workers health.

@Lazerlnes to bare wood has been my plan from the get go.
I mentioned earlier I gave them many options (and my preferences) in the proposal. If the customer wants it, I'm happy to safely go outside my comfort zone.
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